Tropaeum Traiani versus Trajans Column

[Paullus Scipio]

To deal with a couple of points;
firstly, Tarbicus' point about the hairstyle - both the column and theTT show three distinct styles of dress, beard and hairstyle which have been identified as Dacian, Germanic (Bastarnae) and Sarmatian ( Roxolani).The Germanic type, trousers,bare chested,suebian hair-knot etc are the only ones who wield the two-handed falx. The Dacian type (trousers and tunic) are only ever armed with the single-handed 'sica' and shield.
So,unless there were Dacian re-enactors portraying Bastarnae.....!!! - but that would ruin the iconographic message the Romans were depicting.
Secondly, who built it and why?
At the site of Adamklissi, near the mouth of the Danube (Roman lower moesia) are three monuments. The first two are 200 yards or so apart, and face each other.One is a large mausoleum aprox 125 feet (40 metres) in diameter and is built over a sacrificial pit containing ox-bones. The second is an altar aprox 40 ft (12 metres) and on this altar are engraved the names of the fallen.(around 3000 - it was a major defeat for Rome) These are dated to the reign of Domitian by various means ( including e.g a senior officer whose name, at the top, is all but illegible described as from Naples, formerly of Pompeii, which makes the date post 79A.D - he is likely to be Oppius Sabinus, governor of Moesia).As described in literature, these monuments would have been at opposite ends of a parade ground where annual sacrifices would likely have been held.

The third is the T.T. - a massive drum around 100ft(30 metres) in diameter,originally around 40 ft (12 mtres) high and topped by a stone stylised "trophy" in classical style.There were 54 panels (metopes) originally, around the drum which tell a story of Trajan's campaign in lower Moesia ( I'll save the history for another day ). The monument is very different to the other two and clearly commemorates a huge victory. Significantly, it is dedicated to "Mars Ultor" ( Mars, god of war, the Avenger). It is also significant that it is erected not on the site of a victory, but the site of the defeat. It proclaims a powerful message - Rome's ability to ruthlessly avenge her fallen.

In design, it is particularly Roman in style, and there can be little doubt that all three were erected by the Army of Lower Moesia. For example, the metopes are very similar to military funerary monuments. Of the 54 metopes, 49 still exist, a fiftieth fell into the Danube while being moved and the survivors vary considerably in their degree of erosion etc. You will notice I have used the term "Army" rather than legionaries or auxiliaries ! Probably all were involved in the construction, which took place in 107/108 a.d, shortly after the end of the second Dacian War. The T.T thus precedes the column by about five years.

Most of the information above comes via lectures of professor Ian Richmond at the British School in Rome,Lepper and Frere's book I referred to earlier, personal research and the Romanian professor Florescu's 'Tropaeum Traiani'

Hope this is of interest, and that I haven't rambled too much !!

Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff

[Paullus Scipio]

And here's some Auxiliary trivia for Caballo !!

1) Two Batavian cohorts almost certainly took part in the Dacian wars -Cohors 1 Batavorum milliara pia fidelis
and
Cohors 2 Batavorum milliara

2) There were around five British cohorts who took part, one of which
Cohors 1 Brittonum milliara pia fidelis Ulpia torquata civium romanum clearly won great honours there (Ulpia was Trajan's family name),including instant citizenship ( normally only granted at the completion of many years service) . This is known from a surviving diploma belonging to a lad whose romanised name was now (after being made a citizen along with the rest of his unit) Ulpius Novantico.

regards, Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff

[Paullus Scipio]

.......and a quick question for Caballo. I see from the RMRS site that Cohors 1 Batavorum are described as winning their civium romanum in the Dacian wars. Do you know what the source for this is ?

regards, Paullus Scipio/paul McDonnell-Staff

[Tarbicus]

Sorry Tarbicus, your point is?

Saying the locals had no skill in building with stone needs a lot more justifying, as far as I can see.

[Nerva]

Oh, sorry, I'm not saying they had no skill with stones, in fact I'm sure they were very skilled at throwing them at the Romans :wink:

[Caballo]

".......and a quick question for Caballo. I see from the RMRS site that Cohors 1 Batavorum are described as winning their civium romanum in the Dacian wars. Do you know what the source for this is ? "

I'd have to pass this to my more knowledgeable comrade Peronis!

[Nerva]

Bloody Batavians, nothing but trouble you lot. No domestic animal is safe when you lot are around :lol: I've always wondered why Romanian sheep have black heads and green wool :wink:

[Peroni]

.......and a quick question for Caballo. I see from the RMRS site that Cohors 1 Batavorum are described as winning their civium romanum in the Dacian wars. Do you know what the source for this is ?

Yes, prior to the reign of Trajan, the unit is not listed on any diploma as cR. Only Pia fidelis (for loyalty to Domitian).

It was during the period, prior to February 20th AD98 that the unit was granted the ‘Pia Fidelis’ or ‘loyal and faithful’ title for their loyalty during Saturninus’ revolt of the Danubian forces following the murder of Domitian. (Diplomas CIL 16, 00042 from Felsonana, Pannonia Inferior and RMD-03, 00144 from Moesia superior).

The ‘Civium Romanorum’ or ‘Citizens of Rome’ suffix, giving the entire unit full citizen status was granted during the Dacian campaigns of the emperor Trajan (AD102/6) . The diploma from Raetia (RMD-02, 00086 dated December AD113) found at Regensburg (Castra Regina) details the full honorific titles granted to the cohort, as does another diploma from Pannonia Superior, provenance unknown. (AE 1997, 01782 = RMD-04, 00223 dated to 3 May 112). AE 2003, 01745 (Unknown provenance) issued by Trajan, also gives the unit with the cR suffix, ans is listed as being based in Dacia Porolissensis.

The cohort was then transferred back to Solva in Upper Pannonia and later Dacia Porolissensis and Dacia Superior (During the reign of Hadrian)

Hope this helps.

[Scipio Bristolus]

I've just read Michael Feugere's (spelling?) book on 'The Weapons of the Roman Army' where he supposes that given that the TT may have been erected by Legionaries or Auxilia, the representations were more 'realistic' than say the stylised TC, which was erected to show generic soldiers as the main point was to emphasis the might of Rome (and Trajan). Any thought? Also raised some questions for me on the cuirved shields too....

Side topic - I'm off to Sicily in a few weeks - I'd be grateful for any advice on 'must see' Roman locations, especially the less well-known that people could point out?

[Paullus Scipio]

Thank you Peroni !
The dates neatly sandwich between the second Dacian war (A.D. 105/106) and Trajan's invasion of Parthia (A.D. 115 ) and so date the honorium to the first or second Daccian war.
Trajan seems to have handed out a lot of these honours to auxiliary units - dare one draw the conclusion that despite the emphasis on the T.T and T.C on the legions, the brunt of the fighting ( as in Agricola's campaigns) fell on the auxiliaries ??

Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff

[Tarbicus]

dare one draw the conclusion that despite the emphasis on the T.T and T.C on the legions, the brunt of the fighting ( as in Agricola's campaigns) fell on the auxiliaries ??

Lendon thinks so. He suggests the legionaries were more involved with sieges and engineering.

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

Salve,

Interesting comments... I was able to find a few photos of Tropaeum Traiani at Adamclisi.

A modern (1977) reconstruction has been erected on top of the base of the original monument, the sculptural remains now being located in a nearby museum.




Here are 12 close up images, A series of 54 decorated relief panels - the metopes - formed a frieze around the monument.:
[url:fi6rdfet]http://museums.ncl.ac.uk/archive/arma/contents/iconog/provinci/adamklis/metope.htm[/url]


The main surviving portion of the trophy consists of the cuirass, decorated with the figure of a galloping horseman, and a sword suspended from a baldric (with a decorative phalera) over the left shoulder. The scabbard shows the same sinuous decoration to that found on the swords of the Roman soldiers on the metopes, whilst the horseman bears a close resemblance to the figure depicted in Metope I.

[url:fi6rdfet]http://museums.ncl.ac.uk/archive/arma/images/iconog/provinci/adamklis/trop1.jpg[/url]

[lup_alb]

The horseman galloping (usually holding a spear) is a archetypal image of a hero in this parts. It is known as "The Thracian Knight".
Even in medieval times, when an enemy army was approaching, emissaries were sent, riding trough villages and towns on horseback with a spear dipped in blood (or red paint) to announce the danger. They didn't needed to stop and speak, their presence was taken as a warning of immediate danger and all people must gather their goods and herds and hide into the nearby forests.

[Nerva]

Regarding Pauls point. It very much depends on which Dacian war your talking about. Example, during Trajans first campaign against Decabalus, much is written of the Legions (and Legionaries) role in the fighting. This is also true of the earlier incursions made by Domitian. Undoubtly there were a significant number of auxiliaries present as well and certainly would have been first onto the fire.

More is written of the auxiliaries in subsequent 2nd Dacian war.

Just in case people are interested, Romania is a wonderful country and very much worth visiting. romaina has an improving economy and has the largest gold reserves in europe. Unfortunately Romania has a series of environmental and political issues to sort out before the gold can be taken out of the ground in any serious quantities.

Here's and interesting article.

http://www.zpok.hu/cyanide/baiamare/doc ... 20rush.htm

You can find many similar articles if you do a search