Tribes of Sparta

[Andy]

Are there any known names of the tribes and Phratra of Sparta?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/megist ... 28&m=f&o=0

Take a look in this

Khaire

[Hoplitesmores]

Sorry, you have reached your maximum Upload Quota Limit of 1 MB

I cant upload it could you Gianni?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

let's see...

[Hoplitesmores]

Do you guys remeber who were the achaeans and who the dorians?

[D B Campbell]

Are there any known names of the tribes and Phratra of Sparta?

There were originally four villages at Sparta (Kynosoura, Limnae, Mesoa, and Pitana) so perhaps four tribes. But, by Classical times, there were no distinct clan affiliations, besides the twin royal lines of the Agiads and Eurypontids.
For Spartans, election to one of the "messes" was undoubtedly more important, as it confirmed a man's Spartiate status.

[hoplite14gr]

The Doreans that had established dominance in Peloponissos were divided in three original tribes: Hylleis, Dymanes, Pamfyleis.
Each tribe was represented by its own memder decoration on the chiton edge or the shield rim.
See "Greek shield devices" thread for details
We now know that they were not always established violently.
In Sparta the Talthybiadae Clan who were the hereditary heralds from the Bronze Age were probably Acheans. Another clan established from that time were the Aegidae who had connections with the Beotian Spartoi.
The Pylians also who allied themselves with the Laconic Doreans against the Kresphonides-Doreans of Messenia had a number of prominent Achean families.

Initially each Doric tribe in Laconia had nine communities (Ovae) thats why the Royal shield carried 27 "slices" on the "solar symbol".

Kind regards

[Andy]

Thanks for all of your replies. One more quick question...was silk a garment fabric during the Greek Classical period?

[hoplite14gr]

Only for the filthy rich and Royalty. An then probably in edges stripes etc.
The "silk road" ended like a fork in Black Sea or Asia Minor.

Kind regards

[Andy]

Thanks for that. Damn.... my wife will be surely upset! I have finally gotten her interested in some re-enactment and the classical greek period is something that vaguely interests her due to the more 'glamourous' nature of the ladies fashion. How oh how can I break this bad news to her, that she is going to have to be dressed in a 'linen sack' so she calls it!!!

[hoplite14gr]

Rich Corinthian Athenian or any Asia minor colonies Lady could own a silken chiton.

Regards

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Stefane,isn't silk supposed to have come to the western world only in the Byzantine period by those two monks who carried it in their sticks?

[Hoplitesmores]

they found some in cyprus i think before those eras

[hoplite14gr]

The secret of silk production came westwards through Byzantium.

The silken goods are as old as the "silk road" altough they were something like the "Rols-Roys" of ancient clothing.

Kind regards

[john m roberts]

According to some sources silk only reached Rome in the 1st cent. BC. I find this doubtful but it was undoubtedly rare and precious. There is one account that the first time Romans saw silk was on the Parthian war-banners at Carrhae. This is probably just the human urge to associate things with famous events. It was vastly expensive and silk cloth from China was usually laboriously unravelled thread by thread and rewoven with common thread. Pure silk was very rare. Probably only royalty owned it.