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How to Produce Dark Brown Patina
#1
Ok Lady's n' Germs

Now that we have a way to remove rust/age etc here is one way to redo that all again employing non caustic/chemical free agents. This technique can create many differing effects/results depending upon your needs and how it all is manipulated. Here one can produce that lovely deep brown patina we all seem to have a high attraction to or take it all the way to get that rustic, rusty corroded look.

PLEASE NOTE! This formula was primarily developed for use with steel and works with most brass etc and has NOT been tested on every kind of metal. It is always advisable either way to test on a small piece of scrap of material you are working with. Play it SAFE! Thank you.

You need:

1.Old funky coffee left in the pot (just for economy's sake) since you are planning to biff it anyway. If you don't mind wasting about 2 or more cuppas then it won't matter.

2.Salt sea salt is best but table salt is fine too.

3. some kind of small tank (vessel which will contain the project at hand)
This can be anything from a discarded plastic bag or something akin to an empty fish tank depending on item size. do NOT use any kind of metal vessel here.

4. small cheap air pump with hose such as a cheapola aquarium pump or similar. Air compressors as well it's just that all that extra UMPF is unnecessary.

Method:

it works a bit faster if the coffee is a tad hot.
Rather a weird recipe with no real measurements or amounts it's what works but roughly this:

For an item roughly 4X4" you need very strong coffee about 2 cups placed in a deep dish or what have you mixed with about 3-4 tablespoons of salt. Place the project in the container and place the end of the plastic pump hose down into the bottom of container. You may also use an aerator stone such as those you will find at pet shops for fish tanks they are cheap. If not then somehow weight the tube down so it cannot bob up to the top.

Turn on the pump and leave this set up alone for about 5 days. You may have to renew the liquid and salt content around 2 times during this period.

NOTE! IF the metal object is oil and dirt free you need do nothing. IF however it needs cleaning you can use whatever alcohol, turps, etc to clean it. It must be free of dirt and oil. even a light pass with high grit (600-800 wet and dry) if needed.

After 5 or so days come back and remove the object from it's tank. Allow it to stand in the open air for up to two days. You will ultimately see a very nice looking change come about and the steel, brass etc will have that dark brown patina. when you are satisfied with results take a very soft dry cloth and gently sweep away any visible dried salt crystals. If you have bees wax just heat it a tad in an can etc until it gets warm and soft. Then apply a small bead to project surface and lightly buff.

I often used this method when hand producing Japanese and other brass sword fittings and other such furniture. It looks VERY close to Shakado (pickled gold and brass).

Even most pros have a hard time with it!

Thanks for looking.

Cheers,

Titus
Titus Publius Saturninus
Richard Tonti
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#2
Thanks Titvs!

I was trying baking soda with not very good results.

I will remove the scale and try your version this weekend on my bronze musculata. The bronze is very close to Copper in color in its natural state, so I am hoping that the patina takes a little more evenly this time.
Q. ARTORIVS CORVINVS
aka: Phillip Vautour
"Rome is but a wilderness of tigers, and tigers must prey."
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#3
Hi Phil thanks for your message.

To be honest I wouldn't do that to something like your bronze musculata only due to the fact that i have never tried this on Bronze!! I am not really sure what it may do. PLEASE perhaps obtain a small bit of some scrap bronze first and test it just like the instructions on many products warn" PLEASE TRY ON SMALL AREA FIRST". I just don't wish for something disappointing to occur.

ALSO baking soda is a wonderful rust retardant. I usually put about 1/4 cup into my water bucket when polishing steel it helps to prevent oxidation from attacking the work at hand.

Thanks again and all the best.

Richard
Titus Publius Saturninus
Richard Tonti
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#4
Ahhh, I don't care if I hose it.... I made it :lol:
only took about a bazillion hours so I won't feel that bad about it, not like I dropped thousands on a Antonoli Feldman or anything.
I'll just bang out another as this one is a prototype.

And thanks again for the idea.
Q. ARTORIVS CORVINVS
aka: Phillip Vautour
"Rome is but a wilderness of tigers, and tigers must prey."
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#5
Sir Phillip,
Thanks much for your message.

Well ok then well how about your local hobby shop? Ones that cater to train enthusiasts usually carry " blacken it" and" brown it" . You might use the brown it then finish up with a bees wax polish. I know how tedious and lengthy much of this work can be so PALEASE don't ruin your lovely ahhhh ThhhING you got there.

Perhaps the coffee deal may work well not sure again on bronze but as I said you may just want to test it first.

Thanks heaps again have a truely fine weekend then there sir.

Cheers!

TITVS
Titus Publius Saturninus
Richard Tonti
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#6
Why on earth would you guys want to ADD a patina to any piece of roman military equipment that you bought/made, unless you were trying to show a piece that is faking what an archaeological piece might look like?

ALL evidence says bright and shiny boys...not this rediculous leather and brown coloured junk coming out of hollywood.
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#7
I guess mainly after I went over it with the grinder to help smooth off the surface I realized that all the detail work I had done was visibly reduced by the even shine... I like the multi-tonal characteristics of the naturally aged bronze. It brings out the definition much nicer than a homogenous shine... at least on this piece.

I know it is weird lighting... natural combination of direct sun and storm clouds. I guess Al Gore is right Sad
Q. ARTORIVS CORVINVS
aka: Phillip Vautour
"Rome is but a wilderness of tigers, and tigers must prey."
<a class="postlink" href="http://rubicon.dyndns.org/legioxxi">http://rubicon.dyndns.org/legioxxi
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#8
Phillip did you say you made this item?? If you did WOW!! Amazing!!
In my opinion this is about reineacting but aside from that there really is no such thing as carved in granite rules about something that took place 2000 years ago. Perhaps a few snot nosed jaded historains remained pigheaded in their own opinions because what they had found was as far as they could see. Just like Romans had no tomatoes. Hate to say it but yah they did just wasn't one of their marquee eats at the time. I have a first cousin in Campo Basso, Abruzzi who can vouge for that.

There are always exceptions to every rule but I guess before one can break them they have to learn the rules first. Who knows maybe back in Augusta's day there may have been a guy rubbing brown poo all over his brand new lorica just to look cool and different.

Cheers Phillip!!

Have a lovely weekend mate.

Richard
Titus Publius Saturninus
Richard Tonti
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#9
Another way to do this for steel is to just use old, used motor oil. Heat your steel in an oven to get a consistant heat throughout and then drop the piece in the old, incredibly black oil. Works great on smaller pieces since most of us don't have a 'dip' tank to place larger stuff into.

Just pull the piece out of the oil after it has cooled down, wipe off excess oil, and you've got an instant brown patina.

Just be sure you heat the metal hot enough (~250 degrees F should do) and long enough to ensure the metal is uniform in temp.

Worked for me and others many times. Patina will remain through light buffings, but heavy or prolonged buffings tends to start removing it.

Oh, and you should probably ask your wife before placing any oily metal in her oven!!! :lol:

Uale!

Britannicus
Gaius Aquilius Britannicus
aka. Todd Searls
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#10
Thanks Titus.. I desperately tried to have it done for opening night for 300 a few weeks ago, but I missed the mark.... oh well :roll:

Maybe I will just buff it an even satin shine and leave it at that... should be good enough for a Tribune or Legate I should think?

Gaius, yes I am very familliar with the heated oil method but I think it might be overkill on this... I use my own special blend and heat range for my Mordor gear. This gives an incredible hard-wearing multi-tonal finish especially in direct light (WitchKing Pauldrons for example)
Q. ARTORIVS CORVINVS
aka: Phillip Vautour
"Rome is but a wilderness of tigers, and tigers must prey."
<a class="postlink" href="http://rubicon.dyndns.org/legioxxi">http://rubicon.dyndns.org/legioxxi
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#11
Phillip your work is divine sir! More like museum quality not repro!!

You could do wonderous things working for the restoration dept at any major museum downtown. Thank you for sharing your great skill with us.

Have a truly fine weekend buddy.

Cheers,

Rick
Titus Publius Saturninus
Richard Tonti
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#12
Quote:Phillip did you say you made this item?? If you did WOW!! Amazing!!
In my opinion this is about reineacting but aside from that there really is no such thing as carved in granite rules about something that took place 2000 years ago. Perhaps a few snot nosed jaded historains remained pigheaded in their own opinions because what they had found was as far as they could see. Just like Romans had no tomatoes. Hate to say it but yah they did just wasn't one of their marquee eats at the time. I have a first cousin in Campo Basso, Abruzzi who can vouge for that.

There are always exceptions to every rule but I guess before one can break them they have to learn the rules first. Who knows maybe back in Augusta's day there may have been a guy rubbing brown poo all over his brand new lorica just to look cool and different.

Cheers Phillip!!

Have a lovely weekend mate.

Richard

Actually, nothing is worse than some arm-chair historian/reenactor who thinks he/she can re-write or invent something that we know wasn't there. Reenacting is fine and dandy, but this is an ACADEMIC forum. If you have proof of darkened armour, again, I'd love to see it. Otherwise what your'e doing here is complete and utter misinformation.

"In my opinion this is about reineacting but aside from that there really is no such thing as carved in granite rules about something that took place 2000 years ago."

Well, that's your opinion, but what happens when someone comes along who has little or no personal information about the Roman Military, sees your thread, then follows your lead and starts spewing off the Hollywood style armour we all can't stand as gospel?

And sadly, there are in FACT a lot pieces of evidence carved in stone, as well as that which has been collected and studied by professionals in military history and equipment. You don't see someone like Mike Bishop illustrating a 1st century tribune in brown armour do you? Why do you think that is?

"Perhaps a few snot nosed jaded historains remained pigheaded in their own opinions because what they had found was as far as they could see."

First, this is an assinine statement. You do realize you've insulted some of the best cutting edge historians, TWO of which are members of this forum, who are responsible for their own illustrations. I've yet to see either portray brown armour. Maybe in the future you should read the forum rules before posting. Consider this a warning.

Secondly, you just can't go around making things up. If that's your cup of tea, go join the SCA, where the standards are lower. Reenactors also educate. You can't do that if what you're feeding people is the wrong information now can you?

"Just like Romans had no tomatoes. Hate to say it but yah they did just wasn't one of their marquee eats at the time. I have a first cousin in Campo Basso, Abruzzi who can vouge for that"

Lemme guess, this cousin of yours can also vouch for brown armour? Stick to what we know is in the found record. Unless you have evidence for brown musculata.
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#13
Eeeekkkk.... didn't mean to incite an arguement here gentlemen :oops:
The browning didn't go so well, so I am going to bring it up through the steps of polish to see how it turns out.

Still good to know a different technique for inciting patina for restoration work on blade fittings etc... I actually have a 200+ year old Tachi blade that I have to do exactly that to repair a scabbord component.
Q. ARTORIVS CORVINVS
aka: Phillip Vautour
"Rome is but a wilderness of tigers, and tigers must prey."
<a class="postlink" href="http://rubicon.dyndns.org/legioxxi">http://rubicon.dyndns.org/legioxxi
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#14
Quote:"Just like Romans had no tomatoes. Hate to say it but yah they did just wasn't one of their marquee eats at the time. I have a first cousin in Campo Basso, Abruzzi who can vouge for that"
What? Did his grandmother keep them in the Roman fridge? 8)
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
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#15
Hi in Brief EVERYONE IS ENTITLED to THEIR very own opinion whether it in fact be the most ludicrous cuppa swill ever uttered by man. It is the difference in opinion that makes horse racing sir and as our very nature would have it" Every man is right in his own eyes"

Whether you believe in Santa Claus or not is your bag of apples or maybe here tomatoes. One thing no one can prove is that he doesn't exist.

I respect what you have to say because it is what you hold as your own truth. All I ask here is you can somehow do same for me.

Armour, swords etc are not really all that important in the end. Yes we like them and enjoy and gain appreciation of their artistry and historical signifigance. They are however not so important that they should place a wedge between people. Good healthy debate is always a welcome entity because out of all the muck there is possible enlightenment. THAT is the great plus side of being able to engage in such great human exchange as we hope to do here in a place like Roman Army Talk where I have already learned so much from those who care enough to share their own personal experience.

One of the great Japanese National Shrine Tosho (sword smiths) Nagasone Kotetsu was reputedly known to produce only one certain type of hamon in his work. Back in 85 a sword with his mei (signature) was taken to one of the big Shinsas (evaluations) where such swords are pronounced either shoshimei (genuine) or Gimei (false) and it's about a 50% toss up. This sword had absolutely no qualities of said smiths work but still got high papers. When the sensei who awarded it was asked WHY he could have made such a grave error he said" There was an 8 year period during the smith's career when he experimented with various other Kitae (forging technique) therefore the sword has completely nonplussed everyone who held fast their prior beliefs.

I sincerely apologize to you sir if I have offended you in anyway and I truly hope that in the future we can value each others presence here as I for one refuse to engage in verbal fisticuffs in which the aims of fact and knowledge become an ugly quest to belittle the other party.

I thank you and I hope you have a truly fine and enjoyable weekend sir.

The Very Best,

Richard
Titus Publius Saturninus
Richard Tonti
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