SUBARMALIS THICKNESS

[Doc]

What would be a good thickness for a felt ( or other material) subarmalis fitting under scale or mail.

I know that the shoulder area padding should be thicker than the body padding. However, I was wondering what the average thickness most of you reenactors use as the best guess as to what would have been used under scale or mail.

Thanks

Paolo

[Celer]

Salve,

I think it was Vegetius who said it should be at least '1 finger' thick.

Vale,

Celer.

[Dan Howard]

It you are using quliting then it will need to be three or four fingers thick before quilting. It will end up considerably thinner.

[aitor iriarte]

Therefore, I understand that there should be some padding thickness at the seams , shouldn't it? :?

Aitor

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Mine is banded, and still quite thick!

[Doc]

I was thinking about 3/8 inch (.95 cm) thickness for the entire body and 1/2 inch ( 1.27 cm ) for the shoulders.

I am making it out of felt. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Paolo

[Robert Vermaat]

I will be using feltt too, but now I´m also a bit stuck where it comes to thickness of the felt. I was planning to use 2 layers for the body and 4 for the shoulders, but it´s becoming very stiff that way...

What´s the exact difference between a quilted and banded subarmalis?

[Tarbicus]

What kind of felt are you using? IIRC, felted wool of the period was a lot looser, and breathed more than modern felt. I'm sure it's been mentioned on RAT before.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I will be using feltt too, but now I´m also a bit stuck where it comes to thickness of the felt. I was planning to use 2 layers for the body and 4 for the shoulders, but it´s becoming very stiff that way...

Mine is quite stiff too, although I used thick layers of cotton sandwiched together, covered with a canvas linen outer layer!

[/quote]
What´s the exact difference between a quilted and banded subarmalis?[/quote]

not a lot, just horizontal stiching, as opposed to regular quilting...
goes with the seg..... roll:

[Doc]

It is true Tarbicus that it has been mentioned before. I did post on another thread about modern felt being different than period felt. As a matter of fact I am working on a felt subarmalis with a felt historian if you will.

The fibers of the period formed a strong felt while maintaining breathability and flexibility. This allows for better impact absorption and it allows it to conform to the body better. The dimensions I gave above are what I have worked out with the felt maker who has experience making padding for under armor.

Paolo

[Marcus Julius]

I was always under the impression that the additional shoulder padding was done by adding on a piece of sheepskin with the wool still on it?

Not sure where I read that, though.

[Tarbicus]

I was always under the impression that the additional shoulder padding was done by adding on a piece of sheepskin with the wool still on it?

Not sure where I read that, though.

No subarmalis has ever been found, except there may have been a leather part of a shoulder padding found, but that's an interpretation. Sounds like a re-enactment group's way of doing things.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I have seen a picture somewhere of a group who have a sub made that way, ie sheepskin padding, but cannot recall where! But after cutting up a sheepskin for my scutum handle hole, I can thing of nothing better for a winter sunarmalis lining.... D

[M. Demetrius]

Here in the wilderness of Texas, my wife and I have made a little felt from raw wool. (Well, not entirely raw, most of the lanolin had been removed), and it is considerably softer when finished than the wool felt that can be bought at fabric stores. My explanation for that is the commercial product is much better felted, being made by machines whose fingers don't get tired, and always apply the same pressure for as long as the makers desire, lay down rows of fiber in precisely measured overlapping rows, etc.

Having done a little felting, I can reasonably safely say the ancient wool was very likely less dense, and more open to ventillation than the modern. I have worn homemade felt liners in my sandals/carbatinae, etc., and have also worn sheep's wool leather. The felt lasts longer and resists change, but the woolly leather turns into felt pretty soon, and gets thinner and less soft.

For shoulder pads, the wooly sheepskin would be better and more resistant to pressure for a while, then it would begin to felt, lose vertical dimension, and become less useful for a pad as time went on. Moisture, heat, pressure, and motion will make a loose felt of sheep wool, which is why loose wool fiber stuffed into shoes will become matted together by the end of a couple of days of wear.

Having said all that, we just tossed an old mattress foundation out. I saved a couple of the tubular metal pieces, and a double bed sized layer of felt (about 1/2 cm thick) that covered the internal springs. Huge. Fairly loose felt, comparitively, and it will soon become internal padding on things like helmet liners, innersoles on shoes, arm pad for a manica, and yes, the inner layer for a subarmalis.

Now that's the kind of recycling that really makes sense: I get something for free that's useful for Roman reenacting! I'm pretending it's 100% wool, but there's really no telling what all kinds of fibers went into that mix. Many modern fibers will not felt at all, so most of the synthetics are not used in felted cloth, and it's bound to have some wool--the very best fiber for felting.

[Hibernicus]

My subarmalis torso is closer to one inch thick, multi layered, linen and felted wool.. better to absorb arrows

Its hard to find but horsehair padding makes excellent shoulder padding.. a source is a re-upholsterer.. folks who repair old/antique chair and sofa cushions.. many older chairs were padded with horse hair..

FACTOID: those green scubbies we are all so familar with are modern replacements for horsehair packing material.. ...which was coated with a green substance to bind the hair into a pad. We used to scrounge horsehair packing material to make trees and shrubs for model railroad layouts.