Delos Sword

[Conal]

All the Hispanienses that I've ever seen are slightly waisted. The Delos sword is yet inside its scabbard (or at least inside the metal border guttering) and, therefore, it is not possible to say whether it is straigt-sided or not without closer examining involving X-Rays.

Aitor

There are some straight sided ones shown in JRMES 9 I believe and I understood that the Delos had been x-rayed and it is not waisted. Dont quote me on that though.

IIRC the sequencing from the Celt-Iberian sword was seudo La Tene II with longish point , Delos type with a shorter more angular point, then waisted, then slimmer waisted blades like Matt Amt's elegant blade.

Then there was a change to a Mainz type which was shorter but with a much wider blade. This would make me question if the Mainz was a developement from the Hispaniensis or a new design due to a radical change in fighting technique.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Possibly why the sword in York reminded me of the Hispaniensis! :?

The scabbard anyway made me think of it, although in Connolly, the blade shape is different!

[Conal]

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... safe%3Doff

[Theodosius the Great]

Mike Bishop's drawings of Republican swords:
http://s129.photobucket.com/albums/p239 ... fig025.png
1 Alfaro
2 Smihel
3 Delos
4 Smihel
5 Giubiasco

No. 2 from Smihel looks to me more bent down its length than waisted, with a slight bulge at the very top.

Would it be too farfetched to think that Tiberian-era Auxiliaries may have continued to use any of the aforementioned hispaniensis models ?

Any opinions ?

~Theo

[marcos]

I always had doubted the Delos sword is certanly a roman gladius, it is too long and the pommel is very closer to some hispanic hand weapons .
According J.P. Hazell it could be an officer's sword , but I think it could be an hispanic one , too.

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

:roll:

All the roman swords of the republican period are very close to some hispanic models. Probably this is the reason because are called gladius hispaniensis. :wink:

If you compares that sword with a imperial period one, yes it's shorter. If you compares it with a IV century sword, then it is very short.

There are many swords of republican period with a blade of 60-65 cm. I don't know any exemplars with 45-50 cm in that period.

There's no reason to think it was an oficer sword more than a regular soldier sword. Argumentation?

[marcos]

:roll:

All the roman swords of the republican period are very close to some hispanic models. Probably this is the reason because are called gladius hispaniensis. :wink:

this is quite because is not sure it's a roman one . Additionally, the pommel seems (as said) closer to hispanic weapons than romans.

:roll:
If you compares that sword with a imperial period one, yes it's shorter. If you compares it with a IV century sword, then it is very short.

A normal blade of an imperial gladius is around 45-49 cm (62-66 cm totla lenght ).
I didn't measure hundred of gladii , but some ten yes (talking about original, of course) , and I never found one longer than 71-72 cm overall , 55 cm. blade. But almost always the imperials are shorter than that.

About lenght , width and weight of gladii we find often wrong informations. Someone would must clear up the theme.

:roll:

There's no reason to think it was an oficer sword more than a regular soldier sword. Argumentation?

J. Hazell was arguing in his issuance , after a lot of attempts, that is too much difficult draw a gladius if longer than 63-66 cm. overall from the right side, fighting or running .
That , together the fact that very few swords found are longer , let him think are officer swords, thus drawed from left side.

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

I not agree. A lot of reenactors can draw gladius of such lenghtness. Even longer, as did some cavalryman reenactors, drawing cavalry spatha much longer than 66 cm. Don't forgot to see the cavalrymen tombstones, depicting the spatha hanging from the right side, too. Even the cavalry spathae founded in imperial times are very longer than 60-65 cm, for exemple the Rottweil or Newstead ones.

I agree with the imperial blades lenghtness that you says. But we are talking about republican swords, not imperial time swords.

If the long swords founded elsewhere are not roman, what is the roman sword used in the republican period?

The republican swords that i'm talking about are the ones founded in La Azucarera and Osuna (Spain), Smihel (Eslonvenia), Giubiasco (Italy), Berry-Bou and Mouriès (France). Most of them are asociated clearly with roman equipment like pila heads.

I repeat i don't know a roman REPUBLICAN sword with a 45-50 blade lenghtness.

[marcos]

I not agree. A lot of reenactors can draw gladius of such lenghtness. Even longer, as did some cavalryman reenactors, drawing cavalry spatha much longer than 66 cm. Don't forgot to see the cavalrymen tombstones, depicting the spatha hanging from the right side, too. Even the cavalry spathae founded in imperial times are very longer than 60-65 cm, for exemple the Rottweil or Newstead ones.

here I can agree, I have some doubt too about that Hazell's theory.

I repeat i don't know a roman REPUBLICAN sword with a 45-50 blade lenghtness.

here I not agree. Below a republican one with blade 44 cm, total 58 cm, weight 420 gr, already post in some other topic.



I also know an hispaniensis blade 46 cm , but sadly I have not pictures.

Last , In Zagabria museum there is an hispaniensis with blade lenght 53 cm , if I remeber right .

[marcos]

found a new republican gladius with blade lenght 52 cm, width 4 cm., this too in Zagreb museum.

[drsrob]

I not agree. A lot of reenactors can draw gladius of such lenghtness. Even longer, as did some cavalryman reenactors, drawing cavalry spatha much longer than 66 cm. Don't forgot to see the cavalrymen tombstones, depicting the spatha hanging from the right side, too. Even the cavalry spathae founded in imperial times are very longer than 60-65 cm, for exemple the Rottweil or Newstead ones.

here I can agree, I have some doubt too about that Hazell's theory.

I also think that it's an officier's sword,but not because of it's length.
My reason for thinking that is that it has only rings on one side. This means that it it was intended to be carried in Greek fashion: slanting at the left hip.
This is the way centurion carry their sword in the 1st Century. It's not simply a question of it being carried at the other side, because the most well known depictions date from the mid 1st Century, while soldiers still carried theirs on a waist belt in the early Flavian period.
I think centurion, like all officers, wore equipment based on the late Republican's knightly armour. And the equites are generally shown with the sword in Greek fashion on the right hip, even where foot soldiers already use the waist belt and the right hip