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scutum help
#1
if a person cant find 1/8 inch or less ply wood for a scutum

is it better to soak thicker wood 1/4 inch or larger

or what do you all think i should do
Anton O\'\'N eil

the one the only the crazy
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#2
Brother,

Go to your nearest Home Depot or Lowes and ask them for Luan plywood or "door skins." They are the same thing, but the wood guy will usually know them by one or the other.

Gurantee that they will have a slew of them.

Edge
Gaius Aurelius Calvus
(Edge Gibbons)

Moderator
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LEG XI CPF
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.11thlegion.com">http://www.11thlegion.com


"Mens est clavis victoriae."
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#3
Just as Calvus stated... about any lumber yard will have 1/8th inch luan plywood in 4x8 or 3x6 sheets for a Roman shield

One 4x8 sheet will net you 3 sections 48x32.

Titebond II exterior wood glue.. or something similar. You'll need about 1/3rd of a gallon.. for gluing 3 layers plus an outer and inner layer of fabric or hide.
Hibernicus

LEGIO IX HISPANA, USA

You cannot dig ditches in a toga!

[url:194jujcw]http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org[/url]
A nationwide club with chapters across N America
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#4
Been to the Legio XX site?

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/scutum.html

We use only 2 layers of 1/8" wood, so one door skin will be perfect.

Good luck!

Matthew
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#5
If you use 3 layers you can plane the face and back tapering towards the edges... 3/8th in the middle and a bit over 1/4 on the sides
Hibernicus

LEGIO IX HISPANA, USA

You cannot dig ditches in a toga!

[url:194jujcw]http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org[/url]
A nationwide club with chapters across N America
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#6
You definitely can't soak and bend 1/4" plywood- it's just too thick and the laminar construction, by its nature, resists bending signficantly for the same reason that layers glued into a curve retain it. For anything but using strips of wood like the real things were constructed from, 1/8" plywood is the only possibility. I had to look around to find it myself since my local Home Depot doesn't carry it in sheets or as door skins, so you might have to search a bit.
See FABRICA ROMANORVM Recreations in the Marketplace for custom helmets, armour, swords and more!
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#7
thanks for the help i wil try find 1/8 inche ply

and i love the legio xx web site thank for the web site
Anton O\'\'N eil

the one the only the crazy
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#8
Salve,

Is there any evidence that smaller shields were also carried? Smaller, rounder, more embossed shields used as well?

Such as this:
Large photo here:
[url:2cf0p4kp]http://www.varmouries.com/specials/sp762.jpg[/url]
Vale!

Antonivs Marivs Congianocvs
aka_ANTH0NY_C0NGIAN0

My ancient coin collection:
[url:3lgwsbe7]http://www.congiano.com/MyCoins/index.htm[/url]
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#9
I have successfully bent up to 1/2 inch plywood, damp and with heat. With the right tools and skill it can be done.

It's simpler and easier to use several layers of 1/8th inch luan for Roman shields.

Of course you could by curved plywood....

Example:
http://www.tapeease.com/2rounds.htm
Hibernicus

LEGIO IX HISPANA, USA

You cannot dig ditches in a toga!

[url:194jujcw]http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org[/url]
A nationwide club with chapters across N America
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#10
Quote:You definitely can't soak and bend 1/4" plywood- it's just too thick and the laminar construction
It is possible to bend (make sure it's exterior plywood) 1/4" plywood along its long grain. I've made several of our gladiator shields in this way.

I took some scrap plywood and other stuff, and built a wooden tank of sorts, larger than a scutum. A sheet of black construction plastic lain inside, filled with water in the sun makes for warm water.

Put the scutum blank(s) in the water, set some sticks of scrap wood between them, to make sure they get water everywhere, and weight them down with some bricks or something. After two or three days, you should be able to bend the plywood in your frame, press, barrel, or whatever your bending rig is. Don't forget to put some reinforcement strips in the water to soak while the blanks are drying.

The full strength wood glue will penetrate better in a wet wood surface, but be sure you use plenty of glue. Paint it on with a rag or old brush. When the glue begins to penetrate both surfaces, then put them in your bender, and put the pressure on. That way, there will be new glue in both outer wood surfaces, as well as between the woods. It will take a few days for the glue to dry in this wet environment (like pottery clay, when it no longer feels cooler than the outside air, it's dry...leave it one more day). When done, even one layer of 1/4" will hold its shape pretty well. Now it should be time to take the wood strips out of the water, and bend them in the same shape.

Put the wood strips (be careful they are not on the bender at an angle, or you'll regret that mistake!) straight across the bender barrel (or whatever). I hold them down with a scrap of plywood about 100mm wide, bends like paper...and squeeze it with cargo straps.

When they've dried, clamp and glue them to the blank and clamp in a curved surface, like your bending rig, until this glue is dry. Your shield will hold its curve.

We use an oil drum, for the reason that we haven't built a proper scutum press yet. One advantage here, though, is that the wood strips can be bent around the same shape as the sheild, and the glued support strips can be held onto the same rig, so everything stays nice and similarly bent. In a press, the wood strips will be a different radius from the outer edge AND the inner edge of the scutum, so that might be an issue. Can't win an argument with plane geometry.

That barrel method would probably not work for a three layer, historically accurate, laminating method, though, as it would be pretty difficult to keep everything lined up correctly while the gushy glue spread over everything. At least that's the impression I get from looking at that process.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#11
Quote:I have successfully bent up to 1/2 inch plywood, damp and with heat. With the right tools and skill it can be done.

Alternatively you can get 1/8" plywood that actually does bend, in either plane. We use that in Legio XX: makes life enormously easier and faster. The glue isn't such a problem then either, as both layers are already bent and stay there. The press then is almost a matter of straps rather than massive pressure.
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
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#12
You do not need to use a press. While far from ideal, you can use a number of nylon straps with ratchet fittings. This method does have a number of drawbacks though. firstly, you don't get as consistant a shape as you do with a press and secondly the layers can tend to separate necesating the use of small clamps around the top edges.....on second thoughts, use a press! :?
MARCVS VLPIVS NERVA (aka Martin McAree)

www.romanarmy.ie

Legion Ireland - Roman Military Society of Ireland
Legionis XX Valeria Victrix Cohors VIII

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[email protected]
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#13
how deep do i need to make the scutum ?
Anton O\'\'N eil

the one the only the crazy
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#14
If you look at the Leg XX site and in particular about the construction of a scutum press you can see some dimensions. I used these dimensions when making my press and scutum blank which you can see in this thread:

http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=15155

There are, however, a whole range of sizes in the reconstructions I have seen, and it will also depend upon the time period you wish to represent.
Sulla Felix

AKA Barry Coomber
Moderator

COH I BATAVORVM MCRPF
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#15
Quote:
Quote:You definitely can't soak and bend 1/4" plywood- it's just too thick and the laminar construction
It is possible to bend (make sure it's exterior plywood) 1/4" plywood along its long grain. I've made several of our gladiator shields in this way.

But just how much of a bend did you get? I have a hard time believeing it's much more than a gentle curve- the issue is the compression of the inner layers- they don't compress much, hence you can only get a very minor curve- nothing like the depth a proper semicircular scutum is depicted as being...
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