Leather Cuirass Lorica Musculata, I used to think no way but

[Wes]

Greetings!

I forgot a "disclaimer" or safety tip....use a double boiler and watch to make sure you dont overheat the oil/wax mix.....its quite flammable.

Respectfully,

Wes

[QVINTVS ARTORIVS CORVINVS]

Matt's right, it is a brutal go at best. Just finished one in a rather reddish bronze; haven't quite finished the planishing yet, but all in all its pretty much done (No backplate was requested.)

1 mis-hammer strike and you have just given yourself a significant amount of repair work... and there are literally hundreds if not thousands of blows that have to be delivered with precision.

With the current cost of Bronze or brass 18 G or thicker, you simply don't want to risk wrecking it. But the fun isn't over then, remember all of those mini hammer marks from the initial dishing then the raising process? Well they have to all be planished out (Which helps to work harden the medium ), and then the remaining marks have to be ground true. And last but not least comes the polishing and or aging.

These last processes aren't so bad when you do them on a flat or on a conformly curved surface, but a SOB on something with so many muscle-bumps all over it!

Words of wisdom... try it on 18 gauge steel before even considering an arguably semi-precious metal.

[Dan Howard]

Mike Loades, as many hosts, may not be the ‘end-all-be-all’ of ancient history experts but the writers and researchers at the History Channel are. Whether or not you agree with their conclusions… they are expertly researched. The script that Mike Loades is reading was written by experts in the field of ancient history.

Hardly. The producer is quoted as saying that he is producing "entertainment based on history"

I'm just saying; I think you should to give them a little more credit.

Maybe when they actually do some decent historical analysis.

You said

It is impossible to tell from effigies whether mail was worn underneath the plate or whether mail was just used as voiders to cover gaps

.

Can you please explain why you feel this way?

Because the plate is in the way. The only places where mail is visible is in regions that are not covered by plate such as the armpits. We have no idea whether the mail continued under the plate or whether it was a small patch - called a gusset or a voider - specifically designed to cover the gap.

[testa dura]

those decorations you plan to use are old belt buckles, correct? i have the same brass coated lead belt buckle of a panther.

[Dan Howard]

Hardly. The producer is quoted as saying that he is producing "entertainment based on history"

Just found the exact quote. It is from Richard Melman of the History Channel UK:

"I run an entertainment channel first and foremost, which happens to be based on history."

[Theodosius the Great]

Because the plate is in the way. The only places where mail is visible is in regions that are not covered by plate such as the armpits. We have no idea whether the mail continued under the plate or whether it was a small patch - called a gusset or a voider - specifically designed to cover the gap.

Thank you for correcting me on that issue, Dan. You make a good point. There's no way to know for certain from the effigies.

BTW, yes, that's the man I saw on the History Channel. And I agree that's it's more entertaining than educational.

~Theo

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

Salve Dan,

I honestly believe you are missing the point.

The History channel is “entertainingâ€

[marsvigilia]

Concerning your opinions on chainmail under armor… why would you only use small amounts of mail, only in small places?

Weight.

Full Plate = Heavy
Full Mail = Heavy
Full Plate + Full Mail = HEAVY!!!

Not to throw my weight around.

[Theodosius the Great]

Concerning your opinions on chainmail under armor… why would you only use small amounts of mail, only in small places?

Weight.

Full Plate = Heavy
Full Mail = Heavy
Full Plate + Full Mail = HEAVY!!!

Not to throw my weight around.

I thought of that, too. On the other hand, leather armor doesn't weigh anything (well, hardly anything) ;-) )

~Theo

[Magnus]

Mobility even for heavy infantry is equally important as armour rating. Having 2 full but different types of body armour on is redundant. Especially when you're already carrying a shield. :wink:

[Graham Sumner]

Dan and Theo

In the Dorling Kindersley Eyewitness guide 'The Knight' published 1993 a Knight is illustrated being dressed into full armour. Underneath the armour he is wearing an arming doublet. To this doublet mail is attached on the front of the arms extending to the side of the body and onto but not covering the chest and around the neck. Around the waist a skirt of mail is worn.

I am not sure if you will accept this as solid evidence as it is from a children's book but the book acknowledges assistance from The Wallace collection and the Royal armouries. The model shown in the photographs is John Waller who works at the Royal armouries in Leeds so it is probably their reconstructions used in the book.

Graham.

[Dan Howard]

That is the accepted form of armour in the 15th and later centuries when plate armour was more fully developed. During the 14th century we have no idea whether early forms of plate armour were worn over a complete mail hauberk or whether it took the same form as later plate defences. We are pretty sure that early forms of armoured surcoats and coat-of-plates were worn over complete mail hauberks. We don't know when the hauberk disappeared to be replaced by an arming doublet with mail gussets/voiders.

[Dan Howard]

I thought of that, too. On the other hand, leather armor doesn't weigh anything (well, hardly anything) ;-) )

Leather that offers any sort of decent protection weighs more than you think. Leather that offers comparable protection to mail or plate weighs considerably more than mail or plate. That is the whole reason for wearing metal armour in the first place. It is lighter than any alternative.

[Caius Fabius]

AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs\\n[quote]Salve Dan,

I honestly believe you are missing the point.

The History channel is “entertainingâ€

[Tarbicus]

I have to say I was impressed with the resistance of the leather against a sharp knife.

But.

If a sword point had a similar sharpness as the knife I suspect the test would go the other way, simply because of the swords extra weight/mass and the extra energy and momentum that would be thrown behind the tip.