Spartan pederasty?

[Matt15]

Hi guys this is my first post and I'm posting to ask you guys whats the deal with Spartan pederasty is it a myth thought up by modern historians?

I personally have read a translated copy of Xenophon's writing on spartan society and as far as I can tell he says sexual activity with adolescents and children was in fact considered as foul as sexual activity between parents and children. So from what Ive read from someone who actually lived in that time with the Spartans the relationship between boy and mentor was chaste.

But I'm sure you guys have much more insight into this what do you guys think?

[caiusbeerquitius]

Oh my. Is this a military topic?

[Anonymous]

Hi,

If Matt is actually your own name, it should appear as a signature. We ask everyone to sign with their real name, in addition to any nicknames, as a Forum rule. Can you please add your signature in your Profile? Thanks.

Believe it or not, this subject has been raised previously. Look at the thread marked "Say butt". It is a short thread, which seems to me appropriate.

[hoplite14gr]

Of couse homosexuals and paedophiles did exist.
Yet the practice was frowned upon.
Add the strong evidence that doric Laconians had been influenced by doric Cretans in their legal system and ther was the possibilty that Cretan "anti-effemination" laws were adopted also.
Even Plutarch in life of Lycourgos wrote that the relationship between boy and mentor was chaste.
Yet he is suggesting that Agesialos took a liking to boys BUT the incident tookplace outside Sparta and the original text is not clear and allows tranlstion as wishfull thiking so Agesialos is aquited in lack of more evidence :lol:
Kind regards

[Matt15]

Thanks alto for clearing that up that's what Ive gatherd as well but for some reason Paul cartledge sure likes to say they raped the boys from what Ive heard but Ive never seen any actual evidence of that.

Thanks, Matt

[Zenodoros]

Add the strong evidence that doric Laconians had been influenced by doric Cretans in their legal system and ther was the possibilty that Cretan "anti-effemination" laws were adopted also.

I would like to read the "anti-effemination" laws of Crete, since I hear from other sources that unlike mainland Greece, Crete tended to accept homosexuality and paedophilia.

You know, on Wikipedia they use Etruscan vase paintings in the articles regarding Greek homosexuality and pederasty... very, very stupid. I can understand why modern Greeks would be irritated by the distortion of their history.

[Marcus F.]

Add the strong evidence that doric Laconians had been influenced by doric Cretans in their legal system and ther was the possibilty that Cretan "anti-effemination" laws were adopted also.

I would like to read the "anti-effemination" laws of Crete, since I hear from other sources that unlike mainland Greece, Crete tended to accept homosexuality and paedophilia.

You know, on Wikipedia they use Etruscan vase paintings in the articles regarding Greek homosexuality and pederasty... very, very stupid. I can understand why modern Greeks would be irritated by the distortion of their history.

Which ones were Etruscan?

[Zenodoros]

Generally the ones with the larger sexual overtones, such as this one and this too.

Interestingly, there were once more, mostly from Capua, though they seem to have been replaced by one Attic black-figure from 520BC depicting an older man fondling a student.

There is also this Italian artwork, though it may have been illustrated by a Greek, although it's certainly in a more Etruscan style.

The thing is, they shouldn't be using Etruscan art at all to depict Greek life.

[Dan Diffendale]

There's plenty of Attic black- and red-figure pottery showing eromenoi and erastai; just because it was found in Etruria doesn't make it Etruscan...

[Hoplitesmores]

Paul cartledge especially sucks.i read his book and found no evidence at all other then his manic passion to prove that it was gay paiderast heaven going to the extreme of twisting xenophon's acount and hoping obviously that noone is going to read xenophon or any other sources. If cartledge is gay or a pedophile its his problem he doesnt have to lie in his books so we ll all think its ok. Xenophon states its an abomination and thats what it was.

[Hoplitesmores]

And he also supported this lie along with the kaiadas lie in all documentaries he appears in.

[Hoplitesmores]

Sparta

The lawmaker Lykourgos charakterized as most horrid if someone desired the body of a child and set that lovers should abstain from this

Plutarch also (Laked. επιτηδ. 7,237 c) informs us that whoever tried to abuse someone was striped of his civil rights for life

"The (lycourgian) law allowed admiration towards the mental gifts of the youths but any physical desire was an abomination that declared carnal and not spiritual love . Whoever by law was condemned thus was dishonoured (striped of his civil rights) for life ".

[Hoplitesmores]

'lover' (obviously not connected to the modern sence of the word but ment something similar to tutor/mentor as the texts clearly indicate)

[Tarbicus]

I think we get the picture

[Hoplitesmores]

The same thing with the politicaly correct documentaries.


Politicaly correct=historically incorrect