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My Scutum Press and Scutum Blank Construction
#46
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#47
Quote:I think I remember Tarbicus here on RAT having found a source for rawhide in the UK. You could ask him. We buy ours in a leathershop here in Belgium. It isn't very cheap though. About 75euro for a cowhide.

Thanks Jef,

I did a search on RAT and found the source - pretty expensive stuff though as you say!
Sulla Felix

AKA Barry Coomber
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#48
Quote:IN the US, try Tandy Leather Company or The Leather Factory stores. They sell cow rawhide in whole skins of varying sizes, and in strips about 2" (50mm) wide. The latter should work fine for shield edging, and you don't have to worry about the dog chews (some of them are partly cooked, and not really rawhide, and they don't work very well.). The strips are flat, and easy to soak and stretch.

Thanks Demetrius - I was wondering about the dog chews. The ones we buy over here are very very hard, and having managed to unravel one at the weekend they are pretty short strips. Too many joins in the edging for my liking.
Sulla Felix

AKA Barry Coomber
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#49
As to metric measurements - well anyone else see the irony in an American having to explain it to us European types :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks Demetrius!
Sulla Felix

AKA Barry Coomber
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#50
Also managed to find this supplier in the states that has pre-cut strips of rawhide of varying widths, and they look reasonably priced.

http://www.eleatherworks.com/home.php?cat=502

2" strips might not be wide enough for some though :lol:
Sulla Felix

AKA Barry Coomber
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#51
Quote:Also managed to find this supplier in the states that has pre-cut strips of rawhide of varying widths, and they look reasonably priced.

http://www.eleatherworks.com/home.php?cat=502

2" strips might not be wide enough for some though :lol:
I tried to order from the US before I found the UK source, and was told they wouldn't bother. Because it's animal the Customs and export paperwork is so horrendous they will only bother with large bulk orders. Unless anything's changed (and feel free to find out :wink: ) I'd keep looking local.

But, I just found this place, so it may be worth enquiring with them.
http://www.skinhouse.eu/default.asp?Act ... goriID=456
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#52
Thanks Tarbicus,

The Tandy stores in US say that they ship internationally, but I am sure the paperwork for them could be horrendous. The eleatherworks site does not mention international shipping at all, but I thought the US guys would find the site interesting, particularly the strips of rawhide.

The new site looks interesting but EU prices for rawhide seem a lot more expensive than the US (or is this just my imagination?).
Sulla Felix

AKA Barry Coomber
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#53
Sulla Felix,

When I was an eleventh century re-enactor we used to edge our shields with rawhide from dog chews. Once dry it made a very tough rim to a shield and definitely helped stop shields from splitting under heavy blows to the edge, as happened frequently with shileds which had not been edged. The rawhide we used was always from dog chews and we found that the ones with each end tied into a knot were much better than the moulded ones. We found that it was virtually impossible to predict how much usefull rawhide you would get from any one dog chew. The best were those which turned out to be made from a single piece which had been tightly rolled. This could be cut into strips up to eighteen inches long. At the other end of the scale, we would find that some other dog chews which were outwardly the same had only a short length which formed the outside layer and which enclosed a lot of virtually unusable scraps of rawhide. Buying a dog chew was always a bit of a gamble but we normally found we could use most, if not all, of the rawhide in it.

Over the weekend I had a look in a large pet supply shop and came across a huge rawhide dog chew, shaped like a huge thigh bone, which was called a 'Genuine Thigh Bone' (or something like that). It appeared, from what I could tell, to be made from a single piece of rawhide about two to two and a half feet long and of unknown length (but given the width of the 'bone' and the thickness of the rawhide I would estimate about two feet). The piece was priced at £7.99 at Pets at Home.
Obviously that would not be enough to cover a shield but perhaps if it were possible to sew two or more pieces together it might be enough. Obviously to be applied to the shield it would have to be saturated and folded around the edges of the shield and tacked or sewn in position. The rawhide piece would have to be reasonably tight but big enough to allow for shrinkage as it dried without cracking or warping the shield. As long as it was tight accross the face of the shield when dry it would make a very good additional defensive layer.

Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers.  :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
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#54
For rawhide strips you can also look at: http://www.reenactors.de/shop.html

They have strips 5cm wide that cost 6euro/meter They also sell deer rawhides for 58euro.

Vale,
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
www.LEGIOXI.be
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#55
Quote:
Quote:50 mm is way to small for me, I used 3-4 cm.

3cm=30mm; 4cm=40mm, so how is 50mm too small? Oh, well. one of the mysteries of life, I guess.

Ah, it was not my proudest moment... :oops: I was thinking about 5 mm.... Big Grin
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
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#56
I was sure there was a logical explanation. I'll just pass it off as Continental Drift. (Global Warming gets too much blame, so we need another scapegoat.) :lol:

5mm would be great for tying things together, though. That's about the width I generally end up with using my lace making tool. Wet, stretch and lash, tie, let dry, tight as it needs to be.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#57
Quote:Obviously that would not be enough to cover a shield but perhaps if it were possible to sew two or more pieces together it might be enough. Obviously to be applied to the shield it would have to be saturated and folded around the edges of the shield and tacked or sewn in position. The rawhide piece would have to be reasonably tight but big enough to allow for shrinkage as it dried without cracking or warping the shield. As long as it was tight accross the face of the shield when dry it would make a very good additional defensive layer.

Thanks for that Crispus - I shall be exploring the pet shops here at the weekend!

Now, I am leaning more and more towards a rawhide covering to the face of my suctum. From your description it would seem that you are suggesting streching the rawhide over the face of the scutum (not too tighly to alllow for some shrinkage during drying), and over/around the edges. When dry this would be stiched/fixed. Presumably no need for edging at all in this scenario? What about fixing the rawhide to the face of the shield? Would this be necessary, given that the umbo would be fixed through the face of the rawhide holding the centre of the covering in position. If needs be some corner reinforcement plates could also be applied to the face of the scutum, further assisting holding the rawhide tightly to the scutum.

Finally, my only concern with stiching two pieces of rawhide together would be the effects of shrinkage when drying out.
Sulla Felix

AKA Barry Coomber
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#58
Quote:For rawhide strips you can also look at: http://www.reenactors.de/shop.html

They have strips 5cm wide that cost 6euro/meter They also sell deer rawhides for 58euro

Jef - thanks for this. Sent you a PM.
Sulla Felix

AKA Barry Coomber
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#59
I am not sure if stitching pieces together would work as I have never tried it. I would suggest experimenting with smaller pieces on a small mock up. As to how tightly to strech the rawhide, I would be inclined to simply lay it across the face of the shield rather than stretching it (still making sure there were no creases or ripples) and fold the overlap around the edges of the shield. I would probably clamp the edges to stop the rawhide pulling off them and would probably tack it in a few places with small tacks. If the technique worked the holes left by these tacks, once they were removed, could be included in the stitch holes, which otherwise would probably have to be drilled through the edges, prior to stitching, which would probably need to be done once the rawhide had dried. The dried rawhide could also be trimmed from places like the hole for the handgrip without compromising its strength as it would be secured at that point by the boss. Anyway, try it out on a small mock up to see if it would work.

As to the boss and the gamma shapes we so often see in sculpture, they would be fixed over the rawhide facing and would help to secure it, as stated above.

Incidentally, here is a picture of a couple of likely candidates for the said gamma shapes on shields - I believe they were found in York.

[Image: corner.jpg]

Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers.  :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
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#60
Try searching for Vellum and Drum skins

I used to be able to get very large vellum sheets at a local art and drafting supplier...

Often much more expensive than a raw hide large enough for a scutum.

We pay about $55USD for 1/2 a raw cow hide, but this is thicker and coarser than a vellum sheet or a drum skin. Also started experimenting with sanding the inside to thin them down a bit. Phew! What a mess that makes!!
Hibernicus

LEGIO IX HISPANA, USA

You cannot dig ditches in a toga!

[url:194jujcw]http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org[/url]
A nationwide club with chapters across N America
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