sarmatian ring pommel swords

[brennivs - tony drake]

Gaivs if you are in the area drop me a PM to let me know

[Alanus]

Hailg, Brennivs

I have about a half hour to write. The heart-shaped pommel on the Krasnor province sword is actually solid and inlaid with gold, a ritual sword and not a standard weapon. It is dated, as I recall, from about 1st century either side of Xristos, and therefore could be a prototype of the ringed pommel of the same shape. The blade is not pictured, but the entire sword is built or welded from pommel, through grip, to blade.

The two older swords found at Filippovka kurgan 1 are 4th century BC, and likewise they are totally iron/steel from pommel to tip. The longsword, similar in shape to the one you built, tapers to a distal point. The akinakes is almost identical to the one found at the Golden Man's kurgan at Issyk Kul. We can see the link in the various descriptions of these two cultures as described as "Saka," "Massagetae," and "Alanic" or generically "Sarmatian." You know my aversion to "Sarmatian."

All three of these swords appear to be forged from multiple pieces of iron/steel. Hard to tell from the poor condition of the metal. But are they typical to the Sarmatian tradition? I don't think so, and I am inclined to believe they were forged by the Chalybes as ritual items. The longsword is fullered. The Filippova akinakes, with its fancy butterfly pommel as two facing griffins, is multiple welded. And these features are beyond the more simple Alanic blades that have neither spine or fuller. I'd like your thoughts on this, since I think we are looking at two different schools of swordsmithing-- Alanic and Chalybean.

The swords are pictured in "Golden Deer of Eurasia," a Metro Museum of Art pub in cooperation with the Hermitage. I am ordering the 38mm stone and hope for the best in creating a 4th-5th century Alanic-styled blade. Your scabbard slides look terrific, perfect for the late period. The non-tapered blunt chapet can be traced back to the Han dynasty, possibly the Warring States period, but in any event it is a Chinese design originally borrowed by the Saka/Alans. The Orlot plaque shows the chapets, tapering sword blades (even though the scabbard does not taper), plus a contus and draco. The warriors wear typical leather Alanic helmets, and their plate-armor has a high stiff collar not seen in other illustrations.

The heart pommel is not exclusive. And as I recall, I've seen the heart on other Alanic gear. I live in Maine's outback, have not internet at my residence, and specific references are difficult. Most of what I described is in "Golden Deer," about 30 US dollars and a good source of Sarmatian pics in full color... plus good observations by Russia's top experts.

Pair-a-Stroyka,
Alanus
A.J. Campbell
Lost in the Maine woods.

[brennivs - tony drake]

This is great stuff Alanvs D I will have a look at the construction of the blades and see if there is a geographical area were the Iron could have come from or was it imported. Of the swords I have seen so far non show any sort of multiple layers as the blade would posibly show by different layers of corrosion.
There is a sword in the BM which has :?: a welded Ring on tang;
HERE
Of the scabbard slides they are all Roman and dated 200-235AD a bit early for your sword,I will see what I have for nearer you sword date D
Regards Brennivs

[Alanus]

Hailog, Brennivs

Thanks for the BM illustration of an early ring-pommeled sword. The BM gives us a date within the reign of Commodus. Coincidentally or not, this time period coincides shortly after his father sent 5,000 Iazyges into Britain. This artifact appears to be the Iazyge/Sauromatae-styled short sword I mentioned in a previous post. The blade seems to be close to 20 inches long (my conversion to cm is not handy) or maybe more, judging from a presumed 7-inch grip, indicating that it is not an akinakes ("quick-draw dagger") but akin to the swords mentioned by Janos Harmatta as found in pre-Roxolani-influenced graves upon the Hungarian Steppe. (Also see Tacitus).

Interesting that the pommel is tapered, either welded to the tang (as you note) or possibly it's the actual tang forge-bended counter-clockwise (in the illustration). Have you actually examined it? And look at the blade. It's not tapered, indicating a probable Sarmatian/Sauromatae origin as opposed to contemporaneous Alanic blades which appear to have a distal taper. This is all conjecture. And too, there are no signs of compound welding or folding of the blade. Perhaps further comment is not within the Roman army sphere and better discussed in private communication. Go to your in-box.

Da! iss prae-Russki!

A.J. Campbell/Alanus
Cohors I Pannonarium
Legio III Cyrenaica

[brennivs - tony drake]

Alanvs it is ok to talk about this as they are part of the Roman army other than that there is the Allies section which you can, I have not seen this sword but I have been in discussion with the BM on it and need to talk further on it ?: the sword was found with coins of Commodvs now lost. I am trying to see if work will let me do a work swap so I can see it in full but I will just talk with them for now
Regards Brennivs

[Crispvs]

Tony,

Stupid question here really, but is the heart shaped pommel you showed me in Chester and which now appears in your avatar modelled on the one in the Clayton museum at Chesters fort?

Crispvs

[brennivs - tony drake]

Crispvs no, but if the Clayton collection has one D
Regards Brennivs

[Crispvs]

Glad to help. I noticed the ring pommel in the cabinet with the other iron objects when I was up there recently.

Crispvs

[Alanus]

Hailog, Brennivs and Crispvs

It seems the Sarmatian sword trail is getting heavier trod. With two heart-pommel swords (am I correct?) and the ring pommel at the BM, we see more evidence of the Sauromatae/Sarmatians in Britain. Has anyone found longer Alanic-styled swords upon the island?

A.J. Campbell/Alanus
from the primal forests of Maine

[brennivs - tony drake]

Alanvs have you any pics of the Alanic type swords. So I have in my mind what style I am looking for, I have a good pictoral mind but as ever the name is not beside any. This will help jog the gray matter
Regards Brennivs

[Alanus]

Brennivs,

I think I have the same illustrations you do. There's the line-drawings in Brezezinski & Mielczarek's "The Sarmatians. The earliest style is pictured by Embleton in plate A, a type of pommel, grip, and check, similar to the fancy one found in kurgan 1 at Filippovka. Where did Embleton get his source? These are specifically early Alanic, not generic Sarmatian. Then we have the later ring-pommel and stone pommel ones in b&w sketches.

My only source for color photos is "Golden Deer." Here we see an akinakes with what the Russians call a "butterfly" grip, not described elsewhere, yet found at both Issyk Kul below the Tien Shan and on the Ural river steppe. There must be many, less fancy, models in the Hermitage and at Ufa (not glamourous enough for publication); and no doubt several Eastern European museums must also have utility examples of both the early Scythian-related Sauromatae styles and the longer examples introduced by the Alans once they hit Europe... from the first century to the Alanic fragmentation into the Gothic-Vandal cultures.

Perhaps you, in your capacity in the museo biz, might contact continental museums; but I am isolated in the out-back of rural Maine, and on the wrong part of the sphere. The problem, obviously, has been a general lack of interest in the Alanic culture by modern and pre-modern historians; and there has been no attempt to disseminate info or pictures of Alanic weapons, not only swords but lance and arrow heads. The problem is compounded by many a staff's inability to distinguish the Sauromatae culture from the Alanic. Overall, this is a big problem. What we don't know far exceeds what we know. My really big question-- Were the gold trimmed ritual swords made by the Alans or by the Chalybes?-- has yet to be answered. And also, were Alanic blades all "simple," aka unfullered, or were they more complex than we have hitherto imagined?

brennivs nachos,

A.J. Campbell/Alanus
Legio III Cyrenaica
Cohors I Pannoniarum

[brennivs - tony drake]

Alanvs will wait to see the book D D D D
Regards Brennivs