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Late roman mail shirt?
#16
Jiri,

My hamata is butted, but if I were you, provided you have the patience and money, I'd go for one of the more or less correct riveted mailshirts that are now appearing on the market, with alternate rows of punched and riveted rings.

If speed / price is of importance, by all means go ahead. You can always use it as a spare set for newbie reenactors who join you...it's what I'm going to do once I've lost some weight (*cough*) and have the money for a more accurate hamata.

But that'll be two years in the future at the minimum... :roll:
Andreas Baede
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#17
Quote:provided you have the patience and money
Chariovalda, this luxury has not been provided for me by the gods of the underworld, unfortunately :wink: Anyway the mail-shirt would perhaps go under my lamellar cuirass, if I will eventually get one. So perhaps a "reasonable accurate" mail shirt with unriveted rings between 6-8 mm would be sufficient for me for the time being...

Btw, getting gear is hard work, I have to admit!!!
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
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#18
Hey, just got my mail-shirt from ARMAE (long model,semi-long sleeves, 6mm butted rings). Superb service as always! Just a thought :!: :

-is it possible that this very wide late roman belt could have been used with this long, heavy late roman mail-shirt as a kind of WEIGHT-LIFTING BELT giving support to your back? I use weight lifting belts sometimes and it hit me when I tried this heavy mail-shirt with the wide late roman belt that "God, this belt supports your back like weight-lifting belt!"

It seems kind of plausible to me!
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
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#19
Yes, that thought crossed my mind too.
The argument aginst it would be that these very wide belts seem just a fashion thing of the 4th century, because before and after they are much smaller...
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#20
Quote:The argument aginst it would be that these very wide belts seem just a fashion thing of the 4th century, because before and after they are much smaller...
Yes, perhaps this wide late roman belt appeared simultaneously with the extra-heavy long mail-shirts and the "belt-fashion" spread to the other armour types too? Certainly the belt supports your back anyway....
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
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#21
Well, in historical practice a mailshirt's weight was often spread more evenly over the body by a gambeson-like garment ("thoracomachus", "aketon" etc.). I can imagine that if you wear one of those, a more narrow belt would be no objection, and would still help support some of the weight. If you don't use such an undergarment, I can imagine a broad belt is very, very useful.

I don't wear a broad belt (yet), but my mailshirt's weight is certainly an argument in favour of getting one...either that, or some sort of thoracomachus... Cry
Andreas Baede
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#22
When I will get my new lamellar cuirass and put that on top of my mail-shirt nothing can stop me :wink: ! I will be a "human tank" :twisted: !!!
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
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#23
hmmmm, what about muddy hills and fields? are your tracks the wide variety? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#24
Quote:When I will get my new lamellar cuirass and put that on top of my mail-shirt nothing can stop me :wink: ! I will be a "human tank" :twisted: !!!

Mind your personal centre of gravity, though...the more you weigh, the harder you fall...
:twisted:
Andreas Baede
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#25
Quote:Mind your personal centre of gravity, though...the more you weigh, the harder you fall...
Yes, I know! The mail and the cuirass combined must weight about 25 kg, wow :lol: ! I like it, I would have been disappointed if the shirt would have been some flimsy LARP gear....
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
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#26
And the belt is vital in transferring the weight of the mail from the shoulders to the hips! I suppose that a wide belt would be more efficient (??) than the thinner first century belt that I usually wear.

Cheers

Caballo
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aka Paul B, moderator
http://www.romanarmy.net/auxilia.htm
Moderation in all things
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#27
Yes Caballo, you have a point there Big Grin ! I am still wondering if the wide belt had something to do with the increasing weight of the longer shirts...
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
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#28
If you bought a riveted mail shirt you wouldn't have a weight problem. Butted links have to be much heavier to stop them coming apart. Even on a shin-length riveted mail hauberk all you need is a belt cinched around the waist to take some of the weight off the shoulders and redistribute it on the hips. Andreas is right about historical tailoring of mail. They are nothing like today's "tubes with sleeves".
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#29
Yes, my shirt is made of 6mm butted rings, is knee-length with semi-long sleeves. I estimate it weighs about 13-15kg! I have thought about doing some training (running stairs in intervals) with the shirt on, no kidding!
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
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#30
Quote:Yes, my shirt is made of 6mm butted rings, is knee-length with semi-long sleeves. I estimate it weighs about 13-15kg! I have thought about doing some training (running stairs in intervals) with the shirt on, no kidding!
I HAVE done that - and my butted ring hauberk weighs in at just over 40 pounds. (14GA because I used to play a LARP that gave you more 'armor points' for heavier materials)
Marcus Julius Germanus
m.k.a. Brian Biesemeyer
S.P.Q.A.
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