Attching pugio

[zugislander]

How does the pugio get attached to the frogs on the balteus? Is it leather thong through the rings and looped around the disks? If so does the thong loop through all four rings or just the top two? If not, so much for my best guess and interpretation from sculpture.

Thank in advance.

Cordially,

Michael

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

To the best of my knowledge, only the top two. What are the other two for? Good question. Please check www.larp.com/legioxx for more in depth details.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Why is it I only NOW notice the paul chen pugio in the things to avoid section...... I know I looked through it a few times before I bought anything..... :evil: was the reason I avoidedthe windlass gallic "I"

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

At times this hobby can be painful.

[Matthew Amt]

Yup, simple leather thongs are easiest, and just the top two rings. Back in the Republic it seems that 3 or 4 rings could be used to suspend the dagger in different ways, but by mid-first century AD the bottom 2 rings are apparently just for looks. Tradition, and all that!

Matthew

[Magnus]

I know sometimes it's tough for me to reach across my armour and pull my pugio out...was it possible that they also put a thong through one of the lower "back" rings, and made the front one shorter, thus putting the pugio on an angle so it was pointing towards the front of you? It would make it easier to grab...

[zugislander]

Thanks Matt, please ignore the appropriate portion of the email I just sent you.

I think all four rings are there for when the pugio is attached to the cloth belt. Then you would need them all, just as you would need them all for attaching the Gladius to the cloth belt (or balteus directly for that matter).

Magnus,

That is an interesting idea. I looked through the statues and pictures in Osprey Military clothing 1 and it seems that there are a few that look like the back may be in the stringing as they seem to be inclined forward a bit.

But in any event that you all very much.

Cordially,

Michael

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well, I know it is not accurate, but when experimenting with my pugio, I strung it with leather thongs, so that it hung at an angle, allowing an easy grab at the handle. would have been great, if I had an accurate pugio! :oops:

[Gallus Marinus Micarius]

I used belt frogs and the angled three strap set-up that our caledonian friend above mentioned...the angled set up is really imporant for walking (no pugio tip bumping into your thigh!

[zugislander]

I am making the crossed republican/early style balteus. Based on that last picture, should there be plates between the pugio frogs? If so I guess I am not quite done yet.

One more Balteus question while I have this assembled knowledge. Should the apron pieces taper down to be the width of the terminals, or sould they be lager than the terminals?

Cordially,

Michael

[Tarbicus]

Michael, you can see lots of aprons and belts in this paper by Mike Bishop (a PDF file), which also discusses their lengths, arrangements, by period, etc:

http://www.jrmes.org.uk/vol03/bishop.pdf

[zugislander]

Thank you very much Jim. There are so many interesting articles on that site and I can not figure out how to get access to the articles. Thanks for the link.

Cordially,

Michael.

[Matthew Amt]

I think all four rings are there for when the pugio is attached to the cloth belt. Then you would need them all, just as you would need them all for attaching the Gladius to the cloth belt (or balteus directly for that matter).

I don't think the pugio was ever hung from the cloth belt, though. When soldiers were off-duty, they wore their military belts anyway, so that's what their daggers hung from. The Velsen scabbard has 4 loops all tediously constructed of little strips and rods soldered together. The top 2 are iron, the bottom 2 are silver. Clearly only the top ones were meant to be used.

ARE there any depictions of the pugio suspended at an angle? I had thought they were all vertical, at least from fairly early in the first century AD. The Padua centurion has his horizontal across his belly, so obviously those extra rings got some varied uses early on! Spanish daggers (much earlier) can have one ring high and one low, so those are at an angle, too. But that's all well before the Empire! If you can't reach your pugio easily, well, maybe you just mounted the pugio one plate too far back? Or maybe it isn't really necessary to get at it quickly?

I've never put plates between the pugio frogs, nor seen any reason to do so. They'll get damaged, most likely.

If you just use thongs instead of those elaborate (and undocumented) straps to connect scabbard to frogs, and keep the thongs tied up short, the scabbard hangs up higher--as shown in artwork!--and cause you no trouble. Easier, more accurate, and works better.

Valete,

Matthew