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Quote:Thanks- very interesting- so would someone know what were the original words used in Greek?
Cheers
panoplia - armor
thorax - breastplate
thureos - shield
belos - missile, dart, javelin, arrow (of the evil one)
perikefalaia - helmet
mahaira -sword
M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER
(Alexander Kyrychenko)
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Quote:If you were going to wear the double belt would it have the apron on it or not?
Yes, probably. On the pugio belt.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
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Was just wondering about that very question!
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
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The easiest thing to do is to go the RA.com Imagebase, and take a look at the grave sculptures there.
http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,94/
One example: Cordus
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
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thanks for the pointer Jim, would take a month of trawling for mr to have found that one. 8) Mind you i see Firmus too, has a similar arrangement!!
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
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Thanks,Tarbicus,great example. You can even see the "danglum" on the other belt's tongue as well.
Andy Booker
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No probs. I highly recommend, when you're looking for ideas, wandering through the Imagebase from time to time. Each session I sometimes notice something new.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
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Quote:You can even see the "danglum" on the other belt's tongue as well.
Yes, and after I came up with the idea to make one on my balteus (as you probably saw it at Mobile), I was pleased to see that the Romans shared my mindset. 8)
M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER
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Quote:...and the Christyian account says the auxilaries used SPEARS, not pila. Otherwise how would Thomas put his hand in the wound left by the spear? Maybe his finger in the pila wound, but....
If it helps at all, the Latin Vulgate Bible uses the word "Lancea" instead of spear. Hastae and Lanceae were similar, some even say interchangeable words, but either one would make a terrible wound piercing between ribs, through a lung into the heart.
The "lorica" (hamata for the auxilia) mentioned above--wouldn't that have been likely not worn during a crucifixion, at least for the work crew? Gladius, yes, pugio if present, yes, helmet, maybe not--probably just a work cap or nothing. Shield and spear? Yeah, probably on site, but not necessarily in the workmen's hands.
There would be fully armed guards along in the event of need for crowd control, I'd reckon, but nobody much would tangle with a dozen Roman auxilia, knowing how many hundreds would retaliate most likely on the same day. They knew the consequences of attacking or assaulting Roman soldiers. The Bible account mentions that there was a centurion present, so it seems reasonable to think there were more than just a couple of men on duty when crucifixions took place.
In Acts 23:23, we read a listing of at least some of the soldiers who were present--200 soldiers, 70 cavalry, 200 spearmen, evidently under command of at least two centurions.
The soldiers not called spearmen, what would they have been? We generally think of all auxilliary footmen as spearmen. Could they have been simple light infantry? something akin to velites?
Any way you go, though, that's a pretty formidable guard detail, considering they were escorting a prisoner.
M. Demetrius Abicio
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Quote:The easiest thing to do is to go the RA.com Imagebase, and take a look at the grave sculptures there.
Or you can study some footage from the actual period:
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Quote:So my basic thought for this example was not whether that's the equipment used in Judea in 30 AD, but how first century people used exact terms of their time, where modern / later translations often include blurry and general terms (due to 2.000 years of weapon and armour evolution).
I am afraid I am missing the point. The author of the letter to the Ephesians refers to an image of a soldier (which could be Greek soldier, Roman soldier, etc), using general Greek terms for breastplate, helmet, sword, shield. A translator to Latin uses general Latin terms - lorica, galea, gladius, scutum - for the above. How does it demonstrate using exact terms by the ancient writers as opposed to "blurry and general" terms of later translations?
M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER
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When was this translation to latin actually made? What century?
"I am afraid I am missing the point. The author of the letter to the Ephesians refers to an image of a soldier (which could be Greek soldier, Roman soldier, etc), using general Greek terms for breastplate, helmet, sword, shield. A translator to Latin uses general Latin terms - lorica, galea, gladius, scutum - for the above. How does it demonstrate using exact terms by the ancient writers as opposed to "blurry and general" terms of later translations?"
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Charles Foxtrot
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It appears that the translations of (portions of) NT were being made in late second-early third century. See Bruce M. Metzger, The Early Versions of the New Testament: Their Origin, Transmission, and Limitations (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1977), 287-8.
M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER
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That is also what my concordance reference says. Perhaps the terms had lost a little in the translation after 100 years? Who can tell?
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Quote:That is also what my concordance reference says. Perhaps the terms had lost a little in the translation after 100 years? Who can tell?
But since the terms were already general in the original, we should not expect a translation to be more specific. And it was not...
M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER
(Alexander Kyrychenko)
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