Horse shoes? Tied on not nailed?

[Historicula]

I want to agree with you, though to play devil's advocate Bates argues that they would protecte the frog from incoming stones. (Not quite sure how, but I suppose that's why its a theory) If I recall correctly these were found at a burial site, since they seemed undamaged, but there were also less intricate ones nearby that showed alot of wear so...prehaps they figured something out?

Thanks for the invite! I live near D.C. but unfortunetly I'm off studying in Pennsylvania at the moment.

[tommy303]

This quote is from John Ward's 1911 Roman Era in Britain, p 202

The 'hippo-sandal' of the Silchester hoard of 1890 is a not uncommon object both in this country and in France. It has a remote resemblance to a slipper, with a portion of each side of its sole turned up to form a wing or clip, an ascending tongue with a loop at one end, and the other slightly rising and terminating in a loop or hook. In all these details, however, it varies considerably, and sometimes in lieu of the second, the wings are developed and coalesce with a loop at the junction. Others again may be regarded as half-'sandals,' being narrower, with one side straight and lacking the clip. Two of these — a right and a left — would make a complete 'sandal.' These articles have been regarded as lamp-stands, as skids for wheels, as shoes for the ends of the pole-car or sledge, but the prevailing opinion is that they were temporary shoes for horses with injured hoofs or when going over stony ground. Those in halves may have been for oxen.10 Horse- and ox-shoes are found on Roman sites, and they differ from the modern chiefly in their smaller size, which is explainable by the well-known fact of the small size of the Romano-British horses and oxen. Horse-shoes with undulating or slightly scolloped sides are rather characteristic of the era.

[marcii ulpi messala]

I have witness of the use of horse-shoes fixed in the second century A.C. in a sarchofagus carved in Roman marble does someone more know of the use of horse-shoes fixed by the Roman cavalry?

[RUBICON]

During the Migration Period conscious animal breeding seems to have been abandoned although movements of peoples spread the horses to a uniform population emerged. Toward the end of this period, conscious horse breeding began again and the first large, heavy, 'cold-blooded' western horses appeared. They were thick-legged horses bred for war purposes as knights began to wear heavy armor. The first horse shoes appeared at the same time (9th-10th cent. AD) since the weak hooves of these animals required shoeing, which the eastern horses did not.


Hmm maybe we have our facts wrong

[RUBICON]

What seems most plausible is that shoeing was invented by numerous armorers in different places at about the same time, and then kept as a military secret for a very short time -- until the practice was apparently widespread. Strong suggestion that shoes were not invented before 480 comes from Artis veterlnariae by Vegetius Renatus in that year. Blalne (1802) notes: 'Vegetius... though he accurately enumerates everything connected with an army forge makes no mention of any apparatus for shoeing horses, nor any artificers for that purpose." Anyone who wishes to claim that horseshoeing was invented long before the late Middle Ages will need to explain why royal tombs did not contain them, and why there would be no written mention of such a momentous invention for so many hundreds of years. Just how long could such a clearly visible 'secret' be kept?What seems most plausible is that shoeing was invented by numerous armorers in different places at about the same time, and then kept as a military secret for a very short time -- until the practice was apparently widespread. Strong suggestion that shoes were not invented before 480 comes from Artis veterlnariae by Vegetius Renatus in that year. Blalne (1802) notes: 'Vegetius... though he accurately enumerates everything connected with an army forge makes no mention of any apparatus for shoeing horses, nor any artificers for that purpose." Anyone who wishes to claim that horseshoeing was invented long before the late Middle Ages will need to explain why royal tombs did not contain them, and why there would be no written mention of such a momentous invention for so many hundreds of years. Just how long could such a clearly visible 'secret' be kept?



and now this? Was the oriinal photo I showed actually a horse shoe? It does NOT have a flat surface but rather cureved which would not provide for a flat surface for the hoof and really how could it be fixed to the horse in a secure way without moing around and hence creating a confident feel?

anyone hwo has horses understands how 'unconfident' they feel about their footing.

So once again, is that artefact really a horse shoe?

[RUBICON]

http://www.horseshoes.com/advice/invtshoe/winvhrs.htm

the reference for my last post if anyone wants to read it.

[RUBICON]

http://www.ukstrasserhoofcare.co.uk/con ... icle11.asp


And what about the Ancient Romans' attitude to hoof protection? We know of the so?called "hippo sandal" of iron, "soleae ferreae" in Latin, which was in use in the Celtic?Roman area north of the Alps from the middle of the 1st century to the 4th Century AD. The hooves were wrapped and placed in the shoes, which were then fastened with the help of bands running through hooks and eyes at the front and back ends of the shoes. The hippo sandals were usually allowed to be worn only by draft and pack animals walking on "paved" roads, since a gait faster than the walk seems to have been impossible with the hippo sandals.

ooops maybe I spoke too soon :oops:

[Historicula]

Hipposandals - From the British Museum:
“Nailed horseshoes were known but rarely used by the Romans. Much more common were iron hipposandals, a form of temporary shoe that could be fastened to the hoof for use on metalled roads and easily removed when not required. Hipposandals were probably intended for draught animals: horses, ponies or mules. Because the animal's hoof exerted great pressure, they had to be made from thick metal. The underside was often given a tread to increase the animal's grip on the surface of the road.â€

[RUBICON]

hock:

theyre ghastly looking things arent they?


My horses would run a mile if they saw those....

[Historicula]

Well they're definatley not dainty!

The end result must have been worth it though, to keep making these things for several centuries.

[marcii ulpi messala]

The fixed horse-shoes, museum of the louvre.

[RUBICON]

I recently found a depiction of a roman calvaryman attacking naked gauls and the horse's hoof clearly shows a shoe nailed on and NOT tied!

I am trying to get a picture to post.

regards

[Bill Thayer]

And just to round things out, the Etruscan horseshoes article mentioned earlier, which is not available to everybody (it's on JSTOR, available only to participating universities and institutions), is now: I've put it online here. It's also linked to the Ward item on my site that someone also brought up — and finally to this thread, since you guys have come up with some nifty ideas and pix.

[Arahne]

As far as I know the pic that Stefano posted represents oxen shoe. But I have to admit that I dont know very much about these things. Simple solution is. Does it fit horse or ox nail> Do they differ?
Explanation is that such shoes are easy to take on and of when oxen carriage (vehicle pulled by ox ) comes to stone road.

[LVCIVS VVLPES]

Here you have some more Hipposandals

[url:333fgiv1]http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mistral/joconde_fr?ACTION=CHERCHER&FIELD_1=DENO&VALUE_1=HIPPOSANDALE&FIELD_8=DOMN&VALUE_8=HIPPIQUA&IMAGE_ONLY=CHECKED[/url]

if you click on - Notice complete -you get the full information sheet

Cheers Luc