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Lorica Segmentata Girdle Plates problem
#1
Well I finished the top half of my segmentata a long time ago but I gave the project a rest when the girdle section did not turn out good. My problem: once I had finished shaping all the girdle sections I connected them all together. Once the left and right sections were done I checked to see how they fit and to my horror they did not line up correctly. Where the left and right sides laced up there was a huge V shaped gap. The bottom lames laced up fine but with each successive lame the lacing loops got farther and farther apart. At the top of the girdle section there is about a 2-3 inch gap between plates.

If your still following me, what did I do wrong? Should I remake the whole girdle section, rivet it all together then shape it as one big piece?

Any help would be great.

Lee
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#2
Ok, you can see how as the plates go up they curve out.
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#3
I'never made one and i 'm a really bad cratsman, but i guess, you forgot the mm you loose by laying the rips one over the other. Cause the upper lays the thickness of all to others following downwards more to the outside than the last it has to be longer.

Just a guess of me Smile
real Name Tobias Gabrys

Flavii <a class="postlink" href="http://www.flavii.de">www.flavii.de
& Hetairoi <a class="postlink" href="http://www.hetairoi.de">www.hetairoi.de
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#4
Tobias is right....what you have to do when you measure the plates out is give yourself plenty of extra, so when you do attach each plate and the girlde section is done, you can trim the ends of the plates off so they're nice and even. Can you still do this, or will the fit be no good if you cut it to the shortest length?

I'd say if it's no good, finish it anyway, and sell that girdle plate unit...it may fit someone else here, and all you'll have to do is make a new set of girdle plates.
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#5
No, you do not make the girdle plates different lengths (unless your upper torso is significantly different in circumference from your waist). Ever plate (on each side) is the same length, and the holes for the rivets should be in the same place on each. Now, it DOES help to have the plates carefully curved so that they nest together as closely as possible, without any big gaps. I start by shaping the lowest plate to fit, then fitting the next one up to it carefully, then shaping the 3rd one to match the second, etc. Then rivet them all to their leathers as you have done (though if your leather is too thick that can aggravate the problem).

No, the ends will not perfectly align--there will be some slight "stepping". But lace the sections together anyway, and you'll see that they "tilt" a little and close up just fine. That's why it's all flexible!

In your case, I wouldn't worry about it too much just yet. You might be able to make your girdle plates nest to each other better with some clever bending or pressing here and there, or a little pounding with a rubber mallet. Otherwise, just lace it all up and see what happens. My guess is that it will fit anyway.

Good luck!

Matthew
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#6
When working with mild steel you can assemble the plates flat. The only time I assemble seg torsos after they've been curved is if they are tempered or hammered.

20 and 18 guage are easy enough to bend by hand, and/or over the edge of a workbench or in a simple bending jig comprised of 2x4's screwed and or clamped to your workbench

or over your knee...
[Image: 09lochprado2002.jpg]
Flat section and a shaped section...
[Image: 10lochprado2002.jpg]

If your torso is not symmetrical (hip , not waist!, and chest with differing dimensions) you can taper the plates to fit..

http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org/8_3.html

Also measure over a subarmalis.

Assemble one side (flat) and then assemble the other side making sure to compare the finished torso half with the one you're assembling. If each plate is off a fraction of an inch then it's perfect! Just make sure that the over all length is approximately the same. If they are exactly the same then you did something wrong! :wink:
Hibernicus

LEGIO IX HISPANA, USA

You cannot dig ditches in a toga!

[url:194jujcw]http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org[/url]
A nationwide club with chapters across N America
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#7
Thanks a lot for your help it was just what I was looking for. I think I am going to try and disassemble the plates and try and reuse the brass fitting. Then make a whole new girdle section.

Lee
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#8
Why go to all that trouble?? If your girdle plates were all cut to the same length, that's correct. Some "stepping" effect is also correct, and not a problem. With what I see in your photo, you might have a little more "stepping" than is desirable, but the sections might lace together just fine anyway. Like I said, a little adjustment of the assembled girdle plates to make them nest together better might alleviate some of the problem. But grinding out all those rivets and discarding perfectly good plates? Madness!

If you end up doing that, though, I'd recommend removing all the rust from the metal BEFORE putting on any fittings or assembling! Make life easier on yourself.

Vale,

Matthew
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#9
Grummio...

Matt's correct.. you may not need to completely disassemble the work you've done....

You might be able to add slightly longer plates in the upper half

I'd recommend punching out the rivets... into a small hole in an anvil or wood block.... make sure the hole is just large enough to accomodate the rivet base. This minimizes damage to the leather strap.

Score the rivet head with a chisel, make an "X", then with a drift punch no larger than the rivet shaft diameter drive the rivet through. With a small bit of practice you ought to be able to drive the rivet out with one clean blow.

If you do not have a drift punch you can grind the point of a nailset.
Also makes a nice way to make holes in 18g steel.. faster than drilling and faster than using a "whitney" punch.
Hibernicus

LEGIO IX HISPANA, USA

You cannot dig ditches in a toga!

[url:194jujcw]http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org[/url]
A nationwide club with chapters across N America
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#10
What does a drift punch end look like? Is it flat? I have 4 rivets to remove and fix on my seggie and I hate trying to grind the mushroomed rivet end so it's small enough to fit through the washer hole.
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#11
Flat end... sorry that I wasn't clearer

example:
http://www.steritool.com/images/product ... ft_sht.jpg
Hibernicus

LEGIO IX HISPANA, USA

You cannot dig ditches in a toga!

[url:194jujcw]http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org[/url]
A nationwide club with chapters across N America
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#12
ahhh...ok. I actually have some punches that I ground flat...should work just the same.
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#13
Quote:I'd recommend punching out the rivets... into a small hole in an anvil or wood block.... make sure the hole is just large enough to accomodate the rivet base. This minimizes damage to the leather strap.

Score the rivet head with a chisel, make an "X", then with a drift punch no larger than the rivet shaft diameter drive the rivet through. With a small bit of practice you ought to be able to drive the rivet out with one clean blow.

I can't picture this Sean. How exactly do you do this to remove rivets? It sounds like it would be much easier than my past attempts.

Thanks.
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Leg XX VV
Tony Dah m

Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
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#14
Actually yeah, are you driving the punch into the rivet head, or the peened part of the shank?
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#15
Punch the rivet out the way it came in... kind of like backing it out.

Scoring the peened end with a chisel makes it easier. Score deep.

If the peening is not broad or deep you may not need to score the peened end. After you do this about a gajillion times you quickly recognize which rivets need scoring and which will punch out with minimal effort.

ALSO.... you may be able to cut off the head of the rivet (not the peened end) with a flush cut end snip.. sometimes called "hoof nipper" "nail snip" "nail nipper"

somethingl ike this:
http://www.nordicforgeinc.com/images/15_in._Nipper.JPG

I like one with a very shallow camber (angle of the blade)

If you haven't over peened your rivet and crushed the strap there should be some play between the rivet head and the strap. This is often enough room to force the nail nipper between the strap and rivet head in order to cut off the rivet head.

Sometimes you can use the same tool to cut off the peened end making easier to drive the rivet back out the hole.

If you manage to enlarge the riveting hole you can make it smaller with the peen end of a small ballpeen hammer by gently hammering around the hole. This drives metal into the hole making it smaller in diameter.
Hibernicus

LEGIO IX HISPANA, USA

You cannot dig ditches in a toga!

[url:194jujcw]http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org[/url]
A nationwide club with chapters across N America
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