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How did they make this pugio scabbard?
#1
After reading Cesar's tutorial on how he did the etching and silver solder inlay, I was wondering how the Romans built this type B scabbard. It looks to me that the brass areas were likely protected by some kind of wax, while the rest of the plate immersed in a chemical etchant or darkener. Here is the picture from Raeticus's site, at www.romancoins.info/ :

[url:32otbg27]http://www.romancoins.info/IMAG0080.JPG[/url]

Am I right in this presumption on how they got the plate detail? I looked at it, and I can't see anything that would tell me the brass area was a type of inlay.

Also, does anyone have a picture of the bottom of this scabbard?
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#2
Oh, and if anyone ever wants to make a different coloured patina on brass, copper or bronze, check this site out:

http://www.sciencecompany.com/patinas/p ... ulas.htm#2
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#3
Salve,

I'm probably stealing Crispus's thunder here, but the scabbard you illustrate is a type 'A', made from two plates of iron, front and back, riveted together. The troughs for the brass inlay were originally engraved with a special chisel called a 'graver' rather than acid-etched. In fact, with this type of scabbard, I don't think acid-etching wil work as the thick lines of brass inlay will need to be undercut (making them wider at the bottom of the groove) so that the inlaid brass strips will stay in place and not work loose.

The later type of decorated C1st scabbard is the type 'B', which is what Cesar made, and what Deepeeka has in the works. This is a shaped flat plate of iron riveted onto an organic scabbard (almost certainly wood), the flat plate containing the applied decoration.

Interestingly, Deepeeka, seem to be doing a very nice type 'A' scabbard, so there will be amply opportunity to pimp up your pugio if you are into early to mid C1st inpressions.

Vale,

Celer.
Marcus Antonius Celer/Julian Dendy.
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#4
From what I've read this was originally not done by etching but rather by chiseling "canals" into the underlying material mostly iron for the pugios. These would then be filled with wire/strips/plates of the metal to be inlaid. In German this kind of metal inlay work is called Tauschierung, is there a special word for it in English? See here for a simple graphical depiction: http://civis.tempus-vivit.net/sindri/Se ... erent.html

It's a little hard to make out, but I've used that technique e.g. with my reconstruction of medical needles
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#5
Hello,

As i have said in my tutorial, i do the etching because is easier than do a real engraving.

The brass of that pugio don't seems inlay because romans do the insetting of the brass and then make a very heavy smoothing of the surface of the piece using abrasive powder of volcanic mineral (in spanish is "piedra pómez").

That polishing of the surface conceals all the posible irregularitys of the inlay, and the piece seems like if there were painted or so.
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#6
Quote:and then make a very heavy smoothing of the surface of the piece using abrasive powder of volcanic mineral (in spanish is "piedra pómez").
That would be "pumice" in English.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#7
yes that's the way sheaths where decorated,
Tauschierung or in Englisch

-Metal inlay-

see: Jewelry concepts and technology - Oppi Untracht page 304 -319

here is an attempt I made 10 years ago with metal inlay, with the same sheath as model but the original sheath was not yet that clean, now that I see it, I will have to get mine back and finish it like it should be.
I will see if I can find some photos of how I did it

[img][Image: dolk1.jpg][/img]

Luc
LVCIVS VVLPES
Luc De Vos
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#8
Very Impressive! Confusedhock:
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#9
Yeah, I was talking to jasper about it over MSN, and he said..."hmmmm...look at the top left corner, I think those are brass strips." I looked again and realized it was bloody inlay...hahahaha! Totally shattered my delusions of grandeur!

Here's a question...could a Type B sheath plate be made to that pattern using Cesar's techniques?

Reason I ask is because I really don't think I have the skill to try inlay.

PS - Luc, great scabbard!
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#10
Also guys, on that page, which ones are Type A scabbards on that romancoins.info/ site? Do you think it's possible to remove the rivetted plates on the Deepeeka pugio, and solder a new, correct plate over top the holes on the front of the scabbard?
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#11
Strange how once you pointed out the one aera of strip showing, all the other bits seem so obvious! Confusedhock:
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#12
Yeah I know...I was like....awww dayum!
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#13
Great work Luk!!!!

Did I watch right: You have taken a iron-plate (with "punched" decorations) around a red-leather-covered wood scabbard?

If yes: Are there any founds made like your pugio-scabbard? That would be an interesting way to make a pugio-scabbert by my self Big Grin
Lucius Domitius Aurelianus
Patrik Pföstl

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.roemer.ch.vu">http://www.roemer.ch.vu

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.celtae.de/SihFrewen/index.php">http://www.celtae.de/SihFrewen/index.php


[Image: o3.gif]

.
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#14
Quote:Great work Luk!!!!

Did I watch right: You have taken a iron-plate (with "punched" decorations) around a red-leather-covered wood scabbard?

No, that's not how it's done. The red you see is enamel (email) that is applied in the grooves.

Vale,
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
www.LEGIOXI.be
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#15
Quote:Also guys, on that page, which ones are Type A scabbards on that romancoins.info/ site? Do you think it's possible to remove the rivetted plates on the Deepeeka pugio, and solder a new, correct plate over top the holes on the front of the scabbard?

Matt I tried to take one of these apart once, and I tell you it was not an easy chore. I would think its much easier to just build a new scabbard entirely.
"...quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."


a.k.a. Paul M.
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