Equipment for LEG XI in Vespasian time

[Aurelianus]

I'm on the way to join in LEG XI. (vespasian period in Vindonissa)

I did a lot of research the last time. But as deeper as I'm comming in to the different themes as more questions and some conflicting informatios there are. hock:
And my bad English is an additional hurdle :?

Please help me :!:

The most questions I have about the clothes (according to Vespasian period in Vindonissa)

a) Tunic (wool) (dark-blue)
b) Focale (white or dark-blue)
c) Paenula (wool, warm enough) (dark-blue)
d) Bracae/Feminalia
e) Tibialia (white or dark-blue)
f) Caligae

1. What I have to know about them?
2. Which cuttings I have to choose?
3. Which material I have to choose?
4. Which face-structure?
5. Which messure I have to choose
My messures:
- body height: 183 cm
- circumference chest: 104 cm
- circumference shoulder: 118 cm
- circumference waist: 94 cm
- circumference hip: 103 cm
- distance shoulder to the hollow of the knee: 107 cm
6. Which colours I have to choose
- accurate way/dyeing
- cheap but satisfiable alternatives?
7. How the different joins/seams have to be?
8. Which threads I have to chosse?

You see: a lot of questions :oops:

Everything should accord to Vespasian period of LEG XI in Vindonissa

Thank you very much for your help!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Marcus Mummius]

Salve Aurelianus,

What's your source for the dark blue colour?

Vale,

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

I've read where Leg XI was maybe attatched to a Roman navy unit once which might suggest blue but I don't think there's any concrete
evidence.Our group uses the popular color(s). :wink: I'm not even sure I'd attest blue to the Roman navy as I tried that in an earlier thread and was shot down.
I think Jasper is the navy expert so he would be authority enough for me.
Although it would look different, too much blue is probably as odd as too much red.As for paenula or sagum they don't have to match your tunica.
If you're set on blue for those I'd probably opt for a white tunic.
Good luck,Aurelianus.

[Marcus Mummius]

Our group uses the popular colours too. Madder dyed battle tunics, offwhite dress tunics (with or without clavi), yellow brown paenulae (as per Graham Sumner). The colour of the focale and the fascia ventralis varies from person to person (every colour known to have been used by the romans, except purple, can be used).

Vale,

[Matthew Amt]

Yup, IF anything was actually "uniform", it was probably only the tunic, so everything else simply follows fashions or is up to the wearer. Socks might be made from old tunics or cloaks!

If you go with blue, I'd aim for a something more like denim (blue jeans), almost a sky-blue. That's an easy color to get with indigo or woad (both of which contain the same dye chemical).

Most of the rest of your questions have probably been answered in many other threads, though often the answer may be "We don't know! It varied!" Presumably you've already been to the Legio XX website? Feel free to use our guidelines and work from there.

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/

Good luck!

Matthew

[Aurelianus]

Thank you for your posts!

Unfortunately I can't answer all my question with the help of the posts!
There are so many different meanings ........ hock: And I can't find several needful posts.

And with my bad English ......

Where is the godfather of roman clothes :wink:

[Praefectusclassis]

A 'naval connection' of Legio XI Claudia is new to me Andy. Are you sure you're not thinking of VII Claudia for which there is minimal, but actual evidence for some kind of naval job?

[Marcus Mummius]

A 'naval connection' of Legio XI Claudia is new to me Andy. Are you sure you're not thinking of VII Claudia for which there is minimal, but actual evidence for some kind of naval job?

I've seen it mentioned in several books that Legio XI CPF had a connection to the navy because they fought in the naval battle at Action. But so did a lot of other legions. I don't think there is real evidence to say they had a special connection to the navy.

@Aurelianus: I don't think we know anything specific about the clothing of Legio XI in Vindonissa. I do not think their clothing differed from the soldiers of other legions.

I think your best info will be Graham Sumner's Roman Military Clothing I.

Like I said above: for tunics you can choose white or red. But looking at traces of paint on tombstones from the 1st century AD we also know that Roman soldiers(cavalry at least) also wore blue tunics.

For cloaks several colours are known. Red, white, blue and yellow brown are options. I personaly like the yellow brown colour for ordinary soldiers. There is a kind of wool with this colour that can be used to produce a very water resistant fabric. I think some shephard people in Northeren Africa still use this kind of wool for cloaks.

So you see there is nothing known for certain. You can choose the colours you like best.

Vale,

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

Jasper,
What I was referring to was the very vague reference that Marcus Mummius mentioned not necessarily a solid naval comission.Supposedly where the Neptune thing comes from. Might just be an ugly rumor.I knew if anyone had evidence,though,it would be you.I defer to most here having more verifiable knowledge and certainly to you in terms of naval history.
Most things I've learned about Roman history has been here.

Aurelianus..please ask if you need better explanations of words.I'll be more than happy to help.I do speak a little German and have help on words I don't know.My brother-in-law speaks Switzer-deutsch(sp)also.
I know your English is better than my German

[Aurelianus]

Thank you for all of your posts! Laudes!!!!!!

The problem because of the colour is solved.

My biggest problem is that I'm not sure which measures and cuttings I shall take for the tunic, the paenula and the Bracae/Feminalia !

My messures:
- body height: 183 cm
- circumference chest: 104 cm
- circumference shoulder: 118 cm
- circumference waist: 94 cm
- circumference hip: 103 cm

Thank you for your help!!!

[Aurelianus]

One of my friends advised me to make 20cm (7.87") long slots on each side of the tunica (by the thighs)! What do you think about? Did not only horsman had them?

What is the wide of a legionairs tunic????? With or without slots???????

So many questions.......

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

Aurelianus,
You're making this much harder than necessasry. Most people here agree that the tunica can be a standard size.No side slits.I can give dimensions in inches if you want to convert it to cm.About 45-47 inches wide,and 48 inches long.The rule here is to make it like a tent,not a T-shirt. If it's wider than it is long it's o.k. It should hang about to your knees when belted and pulled up so it is baggy.It should hang about to your elbows.
Measure your shoulders from elbow to elbow from the back.Make it this wide.Measure from your shoulder to the middle of your calf muscle.Make it this long.Sew from the inside and leave a hole on each side about 12' at the top for your arms.Make the neck hole about 14" wide.
I've made 4 so far using about these same dimensions.This can vary a little but as a rule this will work.Think pillow case with holes.
Good luck

[Aurelianus]

Dear Andy

Thank you very much for your help!

[Marcus Mummius]

For the paenula I've found out that 300cm wide and 150cm long works very well for most people. The hood should be large because a lot of Roman helmets have large neckguards and otherwise you won't be able to put on the hood over your helmet. There is a paenula pattern in Graham Sumner' Military Clothing I.

Andy's tunic tips are very good. I'm currently making some tunics that are very wide (almost wrist to wrist)

Vale,

[Aurelianus]

Thank you very much for your really needful help :!: