Red cloak of Spartans

[Gladius Hispaniensis]

I cannot remember the source for this but I do remember hearing that the Spartan hoplites wore red cloaks in battle so that they would not get discouraged by the sight of blood issuing from wounds.
I am wondering, is there an authentic source for this or is it just an unproven myth?
I would appreciate any input on this

[screweduplinothorax]

myth. the spartans did wear red cloaks as like their "uniform" to identify them as spartan citizens to everyone else but in battle they would remove them.

[Anonymous]

There seems to be some doubt as to whether this is actually about cloaks, or chitons. There is a story that the Spartans swapped cloaks with the black-clad Thespians at Thermopylae when the latter refused to leave on the last day. However, other references to boys having a "single garment" during the agoge might suggest this was either a chiton or a himation which was tied with a belt. As I understand it, himation can mean a cloak or an enveloping garment. The Spartans at Thermopylae must have worn something under there armour and it could be that this garment was red.
Classical Greek scholars may be able to throw more light on this.

There is no doubt that they wore red and were thus noted for their uniform appearance. Whether it was to prevent the enemy from deriving encouragement from wounding them is another matter. It's often been said that the British Army originally adopted red coats for this reason, but the prosaic truth is that red cloth happened to be available cheaply and in large quantities when the New Model Army was being created, just as Napoleon's white uniforms were not a mark of distiction for the regiments issued them, but a mark of the success of the British naval blockade of Napoleon's Empire, which made dyestuffs unobtainable.

[Hoplitesmores]

Could we get some sources for the above?

[screweduplinothorax]

john warry's warfare in the classical world pg 47 "the red cloak seen in the illistration was the charactoristic spartan uniform. it was discarded in battle"

Edit: in peter connoly's "greece and rome at war" he does mention the "scarlet cloak being the symbol of spartan militarism" but doesnt say anything about whether they discarded them in battle or not. although his illistration shows a spartan hoplite wearing a red chiton(i think thats what they are called) AND cloak so then it would make sense that they would discard them i suppose?

[hoplite14gr]

Filostratos in his "love letters" mentioned the red cloacks and chitons of the Spartans and gave the reason for the red color to hide wounds.
Filostratos lived 2nd century A.D. and his love letter was poetic.

Facts:
Purple of various shades was made in Phoinikountas in Messenia from the Bronze age. The Spartans made the coastal Messenians Periokoi so that they could be supplied with dyed cloth.

The Spartan hoplite could rely on a "standart" production basis until the Pelopensesian war. That basis could supply him with red garment even with a red linothorax if need be.

Red was the color of Ares the god of war.
Spartans who got new properties after the Messenian wars, painted even their shileds red to show the got property with the grace of Ares.
The Mores of Stenyclaros, Limnatis and Elos had red shields.
Check the shield devices thread.

Kind regards

[Robert Vermaat]

Yeah! Let's have a Greek color debate for a change.... :lol:

[Tarbicus]

Yeah! Let's have a Greek color debate for a change.... :lol:

Frilly red.

[caiusbeerquitius]

Interesting:
researchnews.osu.edu/archive/textiles.htm

[Endre Fodstad]

Interesting:
researchnews.osu.edu/archive/textiles.htm

Very odd.

This is almost exactly the field I work in (although my textiles are scandinavian iron age textiles, and I am on the color-extraction side of things) and we've been using non-visible light fluorescence photography (lately with digital cameras) to determine likely sampling areas for a long time...it has been standard practice in (my parts of) Europe for the last 20 years at least, I think. How odd that they shouldn't know about that, especially since they seem to have contact with the American Insitute of Conservation.

[hoplite14gr]

Thanks for your contribution Endre.

The only survivng Greek textile is a linen shroud cloth in the Heleusina Museum dated 900 B.C.

Exekias has painted a number of pottery items showing warriors that me and Giorgos have identified as Spartan. Exekias has painted red chitons. Date is late 6th century B.C. Their reference codes are:
F1904 Berlin, 1470 Munich, 75.1 Cleveland Ohio

So we can assume safely that Filostratos was not exaggerating and that Spartans had red clothing.

Kind regards

[Chris B]

What color of tunic and cloak would the Corinthians have used at the height of phalanx warfare?

[hoplite14gr]

Corinthian hoplites would be at least middle class. So they could afford colored clothing. Those with incomes coming from maritime trade would have more expensive clothes.
The Hippeis class would even had embrodered chitons. Red color is more asociated with the aristocrats so it was more than likely.
The once Royal Clan of the Backhiadae would have at least purple stripes if not purple clothing.

Corinth being a Doric city would have the 3 Doric tribes HYLLEIS, DYMANES, PAMFILLEIS sporting their respective "meanadros" on chiton and shield edges

Spartans tended to promote uniformity but Corinthians did not.

Hope it helps.

[Jason Hoffman]

There are in fact other surviving greek textiles the Hermitage in St Petersberg has several and the V&A museum in london has one refered to as the korpiri linen which is claimed to be the only fifth century greek textile to be found in Greece. To find out the colours of cloaks and tunics our best bet is propably the latest techniques for discovering the original painted colours of statues.

[hoplite14gr]

Thanks for the cloth update Jason.
Hope fully if there are enough Spartan stele more light can be shed but I stick to my vase reference.

Kind regards