Gladius Hispaniensis project

[Andy]

Hi,

At the moment I'm working on a little project of making a hispaniensis gladius. My first attempt at a gladius and I'm running into a little trouble with hilt design as I can not find much in the way of pictorial evidence for this type of weapon, only other reproductions, all of which are vastly different from one another!

The blade has been forged and ground and will be sharpened and pointed. The fuller cold chiselled and filed. The brass plate will be counter sunken into the hilt, but this hilt of wood may change if any of you have any suggestions.

Please offer critical feedback bearing in mind that this is still very much in it's birth stage!

Cheers

Andy



www.firedogorge.com

[Andy]

.....oh, before any of you ask the blade is 50mm wide at it's base (2inches), and 32inches long.

www.firedogforge.com

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Sorry, but hispaniensis blades don't have such fullers. Hispaniensis blades have an oval or diamond section, very simple.

A good reproduction is here:

http://armae.com/antiquite/114delos.htm

[Matthew Amt]

Well, the workmanship is impressive, but yeah, no fullers on the hispaniensis. Also, I think the longest surviving blade is about 27 inches, so 32 is too long (unless that includes the tang?). Sorry, I'm afraid we're ruining your day, here...

There really isn't much solid information on hispaniensis hilts. A couple of possible depictions in reliefs (notably the Altar of Ahenobarbus), odd things like the Delos pommel with its crown of spoke-like nails corroded onto the tang, and not a whole lot else. Metal guard plates seem to be rare on the hispaniensis, even on examples which still have an intact washer on the tip of the tang. And the shoulders of the blade are rounded or sloped, which is wacky and might mean something about the guard. But we don't know!

Here's my own hispaniensis, with blade by Mark Morrow and hilt and scabbard made by me:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/Smihel1.jpg

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/hispan1.jpg

The blade is copied from one found at Smihel, the hilt is based on the Ahenobarbus relief, the scabbard frame is from finds in Giubiasco and Delos, and the belt parts are from Numantia. Quite a spread of time and space! I ended up making the hilt a little taller than I'd planned, so that I could take advantage of the threaded bit that Mark put on the end of the tang. Optimally the pommel and guard would be a little shorter. I think.

One of the other guys in Legio XX has a copy of the other Smihel blade, also by Mark Morrow, a little beefier than mine. Another friend has a nice repro of the Osuna sword, which is quite a beast!

So good luck! I hope you can salvage this and make something nice out of it.

Vale,

Matthew

[Gaius_Calvus]

Brother,

I know this is like closing the barn door after the horse has got out, but there is a good article on these here:

Volume 8 (1997) JRMES
P. Connolly: Pilum, Gladius and Pugio in the Late Republic, 41-57

I can email you a copy if you like.

Salve,

Edge

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

At the same volume:

F. Quesada: "Gladius hispaniensis: an archaeological view from Iberia",
251-70. Discuss the origins and evolution of that sword.

And

A. Iriarte, E. GiI, I. Fillov, M.L Garcia, "A votive deposit of Republican weapons at Gracurris (Alfaro, La Rioja, Spain)" 233-50. Includes some good examples of hispaniensis blades.

Both Quesada and Iriarte belongs to RAT.

[Andy]

Thanks for the info,

of all the blades I have seen they have had fullers, the broader grooves of the inner with a thiner line on the outside, that or the images I have been looking at have been wrongly labeled. What have I been looking at, are they Mainz gladius?

It seems that hilt design is purely speculation and open for interperation based on certain blade design elements, materials available etc.

Thanks Andy

[aitor iriarte]

Andy, I am afraid that you've been looking at earlier model of Spanish Iron Age short swords. Those ones had fullers indeed but the Gladius Hispaniensis was a Spanish Late Iron Age development of the Celtic La Tene long swords which had no fullers at all.

Aitor

[Conal]

It seems that hilt design is purely speculation and open for interperation based on certain blade design elements, materials available etc.
Thanks Andy

http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=12907

This gives an idea of a pommel shape .... there is a hint of a hilt profile on the sword from Moures (spelling ? ) which is a blade which has an elongated (flattened) hexagonal hilt plate still attached.

I picture can be found in ;

Weapons of the Romans
by Michel Feugère

Technological advances, especially in fields such as metallurgy, brought about huge and far-reaching changes for the Roman army. Encounters with different enemies, fighting over different terrain, led to new fighting techniques and modifications in weaponry and armour. Using literary, iconographic and archaeological evidence, Feugère traces the appearance, adaptation, use and decline of weapon types from the early Republic to the decline of the Empire focusing on the land-based forces - the cavalry, artillery and infantry. A good well-illustrated overall study of Roman weaponry and the effects of military change on societies under Roman rule, first published in French in 1993. 224p, b/w figs and pls (Engl edn Tempus 2002)
ISBN-13: 978-0-7524-2506-1
ISBN-10: 0-7524-2506-4
Paperback. Price GB £19.99

[Andy]

OK,

Thanks for all of your help people. Your constructive critisism has been of enormous help.
I've been busy geting out the inappropriate fullers and now in the process of filing down the blade to a diamond profile. The wood hilt may stay, or change to the hexagonal shape that has been pointed out. I believe that the more 'organic' shape here suits better with the lobed pommel. Maybe I'll round off the points to make the hilt more lobed?

Heres a pic of it so far.

[Martin Wallgren]

Wow! Is it the same blade? What a job in a short time.

[Andy]

Yeah, same blade indeed. I did love those fullers and it was quite sad to remove them after spending many hours getting them in. At the moment got a few blades on the go. A late La Tene double fullered blade, a germanic War Knife, and a few helms as well as this blade.