Reference guides for Film and TV

[Tarbicus]

We all love to have a go at the plethora of movies and TV programmes that get it wrong, and obviously have input from the not-so-learned, or manufacturers looking to make a pot of cash and sell their wares. But, I can't imagine any costume designer finding the time to sit down and search through the years worth of posts to find out how to get it right.

So, in an effort to take a positive pro-active step towards seeing more accurate Roman, Greek and barbarian geezers on the big and small screen, why don't we start a new subforum dedicated to a simple set of threads that outline what's right, and even what's wrong, period by period. The thread could be openly viewable to all and sundry as a very useful and quick resource.

Nothing too technical, just something straightforward and to the point.

Thoughts?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

sounds Like a great idea Jim!

[Graham Sumner]

Hi Jim

After a few positive comments on RAT I am basically doing just that in my latest book!

Graham.

[Tarbicus]

Aaahhh. I thought you were just looking at the films and their costumes.

[mcbishop]

Aaahhh. I thought you were just looking at the films and their costumes.

I could do that... gissa job!

Mike Bishop

[Tarbicus]

See the great man first.

[Graham Sumner]

Jim Bowers wrote:

outline what's right, and even what's wrong, period by period.

I thought you were just looking at the films and their costumes.

Yep, that's what I am working on, only just the Roman epics.

Mike Bishop wrote:

I could do that... gissa job!

I am more likely to ask you if I can illustrate some of your work or to publish something for me! :wink:

Graham.

[KDHorton]

The TV movie "Atilla" was dissapointing, for one. The depiction of early imperial Roman soldiers, from around 100 AD, as late Western Roman troops was one. Also the fall of Chalons (?) and the slaughter of it's inhabitants when, in fact, it held until Aetius's army could come and, with the Goths, defeat Atilla.

It seems to me that the Roman Army at that point would, in fact, have been using chain mail armor almost exclusively, and have reverted to the later, rounder shield of the later empire. Also, they used, in the movie, the Roman line as a typical infantry line, charging into Atilla's army in loose formation... I don't know, but wouldn't the Roman Army have maintained a tight formation, bent on turning the Hun hordes away?

Older movies, of course, are dissapointing, but I'd like to see newer ones with more realism put into the legions and such, not the economy ones off teh shelves!

[Narukami]

Excellent idea Tarbicus!

Graham, This is good news.

Is it a new book you are planing or something you are writing for Osprey? Any hints on what it will cover and what it will not? (Only epic films? TV too? Any Roman period or only certain time frames like only films set in the Republic, or only in the "Late" Empire?)

And how did you resolve the problem of cost for using stills from films, or are you still working on that one?

As I have said before, this is a book whose time has come.

Narukami

[Arthes]

Definitely a good idea.....with some new 'period' (as in 'our' period of interest) films coming up, maybe we could drop some [size=200:ncaiq80l]hints[/size] to the historical researchers and costume designers.... :wink:
regards
Arthes

[Cornelius Quintus]

Ave Jim,

great idea (and I'm already curious for Graham's book).

But what can we do to help avoiding more 'fantasy' costumes in new tv or movie productions? They would need a consulting and costume-review- service before (!) the kits are made.

I doubt that an 'Hollywood-tailor' will be able to design the right kit, even if he could take a look in a what-was-wrong-in-other-movies book.

[Caius Fabius]

Many TV series have a 'bible', telling the writers and costumers (and make up and so on) what they can and can't do. Maybe we could make a 'Roman bible' showing costumes, helmets, armor, footwear, horse furniture, standards, shields... by time period, along with the various non-Roman allies and enemies, and start by donating the book to some of the larger film producers? Maybe send them to people who have an interest in costuming and some of the major SFX and equipment houses?

Obviously they need loads of pictures, since... never mind.... :twisted:

[TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS]

A strange thing happens with the movie costumers and the decision men: they spend a lot of money and study effort for almost all the periods but for the "classic" period (Roman/Greek etc)...

1600/700, Napoleonic, Colonial wars, WW I-II, etc: we have seen very expensive and maniacally accurate marvels, but as soon as they touch the Romans do disasters.
Of course They cannot get all the material about the real roman gear so easily like for the Napoleonic wars or WW II, but for example the Dan Peterson's useful roman gear handbook exists and sold online since years and it can surely address any costumer to an enough safe reconstruction and a good "basic" startpoint. So why the costumers did so Gladiator, King Arthur, Rome...? I begin to think it's a genetic desease...
I'm sure that Jim had a great idea, it's right to do it! Anyway I'm not so optimist about the costumers will use it regularly as a "Bible". Once we'll do the definitive and updated regularly "manual", in my opinion, we'll have, to find an effective way to communicate it and make it world-wide well known in the movie system, explaining them that accuracy could mean less expensive too...

RAT is the best place for this and easy to find too: when in the far 2001 I organized my first first roman event at Albano, before the planning I googled "roman", "army" and "event" and one of the first results was the black/red RAT: a new world for me and the start of many things. Why they don't do the same?

Valete,

[Susanna]

I spend several hours of explaining peopler what "right" or "wrong".
But there is only a very few interest in taking hints from "costume-junkies" or "overscientific archaeologist" serious.
They follow the director´s book and (which I think is the biggest factor) they wanna serve a certain stereo-type of what the viewer expects.

You only serve history through stereo-types!
(Thats not my personal oppinion, but rather the experience I made with the media and also with the public trough years.)
That does not mean that public is not interest in historical accurance, but in TV or cinema they want to entertain themselves, not getting a lesson.
Thats why also documentaries become more and more away from being scientific, its also entertainment.

But still I am an optimist and directly would support such an idea. wink:

[Tarbicus]

I staunchly believe that the public only usually knows what it doesn't want, but doesn't know what it wants until it's seen it.