Why did Connolly illustrate "The Legionary" with..

[Magnus]

...a Centurion in segmentata. As far as I know there hasn't been any sculptural evidence for it. So what was he basing his pictures on?

[mcbishop]

...a Centurion in segmentata. As far as I know there hasn't been any sculptural evidence for it. So what was he basing his pictures on?

Trajan's Column, perhaps? After all, there are no citizen centurions wearing mail or scale on it. ;-)

Mike Bishop

[Magnus]

But is that enough to make a recreation/impersonation of a centurion in segmentata Mike, given T's C reputation as having had some artistic license used on it?

[mcbishop]

But is that enough to make a recreation/impersonation of a centurion in segmentata Mike, given T's C reputation as having had some artistic license used on it?

I was joking, but there is a serious point there. There are very few representations of centurions in armour and, given the paucity of depictions of segmentata in general, I don't think it's possible to categorically say centurions did not wear lorica seg. Now my principle as an archaeologist trained as an ancient historian (and thus doubly anal!) is always to stick to the available evidence, so I would say what little we have to work from indicates centurions wore mail or scale... but then it also shows us ordinary legionaries wore those types of armour as well as segmentata. As ever, accidents of survival could mask reality and (altogether now) absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

In such circumstances I see no problem in reconstructing a centurion in lorica seg so long as nobody starts saying 'this is how it was done' rather than 'this might have been how it was done' (because that is how factoids are born). I even recall Peter talking to me about this reconstruction, since he thought it slightly mischievous to depict the brass fittings on the centurion's cuirass as being tinned or silvered, possibly to distinguish it from the 'ordinary' armour, and wondering if anyone would notice (they have now;-).

Mike Bishop

[Magnus]

Hahahahaha....so as long as someone had an explanation similar to what you've given there Mike...which i'm sure most reenactors have given in the past in terms of a piece of gear, should be ok eh?

(Don't worry, I won't go quoting you...well, too much anyway. 8) )

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I would do a centurion in segmentata, as does one of our own! 8) Mind you, would be a difficult process hanging phalarea on it !
I like the way you worded that Mike, as it would be pretty boring to just limit impressions to what is ACTUALLY known! I know I am no expert here, but we need to have some fun here too! Besides, who's going to do the one of the centurion with a burning braizier on his helmet! hock: hock:

That is one I will leave to the die hard realists! Like you Matt! :lol: :lol:

Sorry to butt in here! I get confused by the on-again/off-again views on using TC as a source, as it seems to be ok once in a while but then someone will reject other instances. Seems there are so few real artifacts to totally reject everything that is not backed up from the column.
Sorry to be so upitty here, it is just the maker of my seg said I could use TC as a defense for putting 2 straps across the front of my seg, which I have to admit I was dubious about, untill I saw it portrayed in such detail on TC!

[Magnus]

Hey Byron, you said one of your own...you mean one of your legion mates does a centurion in segmentata? Got any pics? 8)

As for the column...well, i leave it to the more studios people here, but it seems that some parts of the column that can be backed up by a secondary source is ok, while others may not be as good to use.

[Tarbicus]

I would do a centurion in segmentata, as does one of our own! 8) Mind you, would be a difficult process hanging phalarea on it !

Check out John M McDermott's impression: http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... 4642#74642
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... &start=400

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Cheers Jim! I was Ass-u-meing that a different method of hanging would be used! I didn't think the harness would hang so easily on seg! :o

Hello Matt! Yes if you go to Romanarmy.net, anf look at the Military link, you will see 2 Centurions, one in seg, and the other is Len Morgan, in a Hamata!

[Magnus]

Wow, awesome stuff guys. Thanks.

Hey, wasn't the centurion supposed to have a belt without the apron straps at the front?

[Peroni]

wasn't the centurion supposed to have a belt without the apron straps at the front?

That seems to be the general understanding.

I know that the grave stele of M. Favonius Facilis at Colchester hasn't got an apron, but we cannot assume that all centurions didn't.

M. Caelius has no belt at all.

Festus has what appears to be no belt at all.

Classicus has an earlier type of belt where the apron is made from the ends of the main strap end.

Caelidius' stone only has his helmet, armour and greaves depicted.

[Magnus]

Yeah, that's what I noticed. Is there any other evidence beyond sculptural that shows a centurion in full regalia....like paintings or frescoes?