Show your roman belts?

[M. Demetrius]

Well, I have had Florida sand in my shoes, and you know what they say about that...so maybe so, you never know.

To make the "dimples" on my belt plates, I used a small leather tool that is really designed for setting snaps. It has a flattened center, and a shoulder so it can't easily punch through the brass. A hole would be a real bother. Then, on the front side, I used a dull leather punch of the right size, putting it over the indistinct dimple, and giving it a whack against an anvil. It defined the bump. Getting them in a straight line was the biggest challenge.

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Hello,

I'm making a belt with concentric circles. Sometimes the cercles were embossed, but other were made with a lathe.

I have made a plate similar to this one from Mainz, and another exemples of sites like Vindonissa, etc.



I have used a brass sheet of 1’5 mm. I need such gauge to avoid the lathe cut the plate. First, i have made a rectangular plate of 7x4 cm.

In the center of the rectangle i have made a hole, that it will be the center for the lathe. I made some concentric cercles with the lathe, with a depth of 0’8 – 1 mm.

Then, i have made the lateral tubes, with brass rods inside. The extrems of that rods are fused to make the balls terminals. I have ad some punched decoration in the surface of the lateral tubes, but it’s more usual plain pieces.

I have made 10 of this pieces, including the pugio frogs. There are made too with the lathe. There are big in diameter, like the ones from Herculaneum or Tejike.



To be continued…
:wink:

[M. Demetrius]

Having a non-circular piece on the lathe, does that cause any unpleasant vibration? I'll bet those corners could make trouble for your knuckles as they spin by, yes?

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

The non circular piece ( the rectangular plate) are atached to a faceplate of nylon and that to the spindle. No vibration!

[barcid]

My republican belts fresh in from Adrian at Armamentaria ,very nice so Happy will be a good new years eve :lol: Adrians pic show them to great effect , 6 belt plates .Thanks Mate

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Nice belt plates and nice belt!

My friend Jose Manuel Pastor has seen the original belt piece and says me that the backing of the plate is not another metal plate, it's something like fabric (linen?), preserved with the mineralized corrosion of the belt plate itself.

[Tim Edwards]

My friend Jose Manuel Pastor has seen the original belt piece and says me that the backing of the plate is not another metal plate, it's something like fabric (linen?), preserved with the mineralized corrosion of the belt plate itself.

Most interesting. Erik König thinks differently:

http://www.replik-online.de/de/index2.html

Check out his republican belt sets.

My own image of the finds from the RGZM is inconclusive, but here nontheless:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Seems there are a few ideas as to the backing then.
Eriks belts are indeed nice!

I've seen samples of Nodges plates and they are great quality.
Seems one makes their choice and goes wit hit in this case!

[Marcus Mummius]

It's something like fabric (linen?), preserved with the mineralized corrosion of the belt plate itself.

If the belt plates are cupric alloy it's most likely the actual fabric survived and that they are not mineralised remains. The cupric corrosion products are poisonous for the micro-organisms that normally devour organic materials and this way the organic material itself can survive.

In iron corrosion it's not the actual organic material that is preserved but the structure of the organic material is replaced by corrosion products (so only the form is preserved, not the material itself). This is called pseudomorphic replacement.

There are exceptions, but this is normally the case.

Vale,

[Peroni]

There is a similarly backed Republican plate from Georgia. It has a metal backing.

[Tarbicus]

There's also a similar one from the Crimea with glass inbetween the two plates. I think it's from a 1st-C BC context?

I've also been told that it's more than possible there would be only about five plates on such a belt.

[barcid]

There's also a similar one from the Crimea with glass inbetween the two plates. I think it's from a 1st-C BC context?

I've also been told that it's more than possible there would be only about five plates on such a belt.

Tarbicus Hi do we have a source or reference for a maximum of 5 plates, i feel i was conservitive having 6 ! other belts for this period ive seen reproduced have many more. i feel the quantity of decoration would have reflected an individuals wealth , am i incorrect in believing this ? cheers

[caiusbeerquitius]

1. *edit:*<Some of t>he plates from Numantia in the RGZM have a metal backing of thin bronze plates with a lozenged pattern pressed into them with a chisel.

2. The small number of plates found (also in comparison to other military items from the period betweern 150 and 80 BCE) suggests that there were not too many of them around

3. The soldiers were generally not payed regularly at that time, and they rather were farmers / not-so-well-to-do. The first item to invest their metal (i.e. money) into most certainly was a helmet, then maybe a breast plate. Belt plates certainly weren´t way up on the list. At that time a bronze helmet was still worth a considerable amount of money. The belts full of plates seem to be common only from the early Augustan period onwards, but, regarding the whole of the Empire apparently not as common as we think. See the Pula relief, again. Tim Edward´s pic above shows what may be a set of a complete belt. Add an other "frog" and a clasp to one of the belts, and there you go. No need to imitate the Augustan belts, IMO. What I would suggest, though, is using sheep skin in double layer, colours and stitching. Or a simple tablet-woven striped band with a hercules knot. We´re talking of a militia, after all.

[Tarbicus]

Or a simple tablet-woven striped band with a hercules knot. We´re talking of a militia, after all.

Christian, you mean something like the first example here?: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/shelagh.le ... 1/TW01.htm

[barcid]

It had not occured to me that romans may have used textile belts , I have based my interpretation of a 2nd.cent bc Hastatus/ Triarius on the scant evidence available & figured that leather belts would have been used across the spectrum of roman heavy infantry.

So this is infact good news as although i am building a Top of the line impression with bronze helmet ,greaves, breast plate and mail these used in varying combinations with textile belts i will be able to represent from the lowly to the high . I do stand by me statement of "wealth " perhaps not measured in Money in the bank & landholding But as i have discovered with my research into 17th. cent impressions opportunity , Booty & luck with gambling can provide an older more "streetwise" soldier with a lot of Good Kit .

Im chuffed my purchase has prompted good disscussion & ive learned something from it cheers :wink: