Legionary Insignia

[Andrew Brozyna]

If you look in Connolly's "Greece and Rome at War" you'll see a Gallic relief depicting a warrior holding a shield similarly shaped to the Batavian later tombstone. I don't have it handy, but I think it was from the 2nd or 3rd century BC.

[drsrob]

Yes, Fabius, his books do have a few errors, but then so do many other modern authors! According to him, every legion he writes about wears "blood red tunics" :lol: :lol:

:twisted: Hey, a tunic colour debate :lol:

So Rob, you would agree then, that Caesar was the original founder, or do you have someone else in mind for that honor?

There is unfortunately no evidence that the XIIII Gemina was based on a reconstituted Caesarian XIIII legion, though it is not impossible. See: Lawrence Keppie, The Making of the Roman Army (London 1984) p. 133.

[Peroni]

The title gemina means something like 'double'.

Means "twin".

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Would seem the logical course of event though! lol:

[M. Demetrius]

Hey, a tunic colour debate

We're sure we don't know what you're talking about here. Everybody knows that Roman legions from Caesar to Constantine all wore
8)

[Dan Diffendale]

We're sure we don't know what you're talking about here. Everybody knows that Roman legions from Caesar to Constantine all wore
8)

No need to beat a dead horse -- I think we're all in agreement that they all wore sunglasses.

Pliny tells us that, before Marius, there were five signa: eagle, wolf, minotaur (possibly the man-headed bull sometimes seen on Italiote Greek coins), horse, and boar.

Romanis eam legionibus Gaius Marius in secundo consulatu suo proprie dicavit. erat et antea prima cum quattuor aliis: lupi, minotauri, equi aprique singulos ordines anteibant.

Festus, writing in the late second century CE, also attests the Minotaur as a standard.

MINOTAURI effigies inter signa militaria est, quod non minus occulta esse debent consilia ducum, quam fuit domicilium ejus labyrinthus.

Via LacusCurtius, "Signa Militaria" from Smith's Dictionary.

[alanmac100]

The Final report from the excavations at Dura Europos gives examples of shield designs from Trajan's column (Florescu 1965). There are examples of 'Auxiliary' shields with stars,wreaths, eagles, concentric rings,lightning bolts and interestingly enough, the representation of Romulus and Remus and the She-Wolf. The investigative work on the shields examples from Dura were done by a Belgian gentleman by the name of Cumont. He concluded that the general base colour for all the shields and fragments thereof was-Wait for it-RED. Those examples that were restored or any that were complete enough to give a fair representation of were all highly decorated eg Homeric shield and Amazon shield and the cavalry shield with the decorated inside.

As the Marcus Aurelius examples as cited were predominantly oval, does that suggest that the transition from rectangular to oval had already begun? Or that simply the Auxiliary did all the fighting in his long wars?

The reason for the example of the DURA Shields is that there is mention of some direct correlation between those designs and the Trajanic ones. If we consider the possibilites, would it not be unreasonable to assume that with the extensive use of the oval shield by Marcus Aurelius' armies and the use of symbols on Trajanic shields that the two could have been readily combined in the late 2nd cent?

Alan Machen

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Andrew said......

"If you look in Connolly's "Greece and Rome at War" you'll see a Gallic relief depicting a warrior holding a shield similarly shaped to the Batavian later tombstone. I don't have it handy, but I think it was from the 2nd or 3rd century BC."

is that the one on page 115, bottom left?

says it is from Bormio, N italy, showing Celtic standard bearer and horn blower. Roman standard bearer tombstone from 3rd centAD shows similar shield.

If so, it looks similar, but larger...! 8)

[Crispvs]

Speaking of odd standards, doesn't Lepontius from Strasbourg have a standard topped with a chicken or something similar?

Let's also remember the so-called Vindolanda standard.

http://vindolanda.csad.ox.ac.uk/exhibit ... bronze.jpg


Crispvs