My home town Houten is in the news! (Limes)

[Arahne]

How wide is the road? And how thick is the gravel layer?

[Robert Vermaat]

The road covers an area of 22 metres, but the road surface is just over 5 metres wide.
The gravel layers are only centimeters deep, but there are several layers.

I was shocked when I realised that the road surface was just 0.5 metres below the surface! hock:

I can reveal the actual location now:

[jvrjenivs]

Today, I've been there (there was a public day, and I played with the Groma). It's really nice to see how the road has been. I left my camera in the car, so I couldn't make pictures, but I liked that after the public has gone we could go inside the spot and look a lot closer to the findings, with the comments of the archeologist. It was a great day, and a great spot!

(and afterwards I've visited the Fectio tower which is only a couple of yards away, and can be easily seen from the spot.)

[Robert Vermaat]

Today, I've been there (there was a public day, and I played with the Groma).

Had fun? Congrats on the move to Corbvlo!

It's really nice to see how the road has been. I left my camera in the car, so I couldn't make pictures, but I liked that after the public has gone we could go inside the spot and look a lot closer to the findings, with the comments of the archeologist. It was a great day, and a great spot!

I was very glad, after all, to be able to come on Friday. I had the chance to go inside the trench!

(and afterwards I've visited the Fectio tower which is only a couple of yards away, and can be easily seen from the spot.)

Nice spot, eh?

[aitor iriarte]

Pfeeew... It was spared by the railway for just a few meters! hock:
Were there any kind of side drainage channels, Robert?

Aitor

[Robert]

Salve Omnes,

Aitor, judging from the picture, the railway cuts smack through the road, as the Roman road (dotted line) runs from east to west and the railway is north-south. Good doc, thanks! Does the road run through the castellum or past it, Robert?
Jvrjenivs, nice to read you joined Corbvlo, Cordvs is great, as is Romilia Secunda and Monty.

[jvrjenivs]

Aitor, do you mean the trench i've marked in the picture?
Secondly, Robert is truth. The railway cross in 90 degrees with the road.

Robert (both) Yeah, I like it. Finally I now can start doing more events.

[Arahne]

Well, all of this (judging by profiles) looks like path to me, not like built road, or I am terribly wrong?

[jvrjenivs]

Hi Stefan,

I only know what the archeologists told me yesterday, but they told that there was probably a path (as you said) in the pre-flavian period. That is what you could see the best by the profiles. Also there are some findings that hardly suggest that in de second century there was built a road on it. They're now investigating that.

It also seems to be that there would be another road in the area wich lead you to the city of Utrecht, but they didn't find that one at this time, but they will search on another spot next 3 weeks.

[Robert Vermaat]

Wow, a lot of questions. Answers:
@ Aitor:

Pfeeew... It was spared by the railway for just a few meters! hock:
Were there any kind of side drainage channels, Robert?

As the others observed, the road is crossed by the railwayline at a possible 90 degrees angle.

I have neot seen any clear drainage ditches on either side. That may be due to the land to the north being much lower (and very wet, as we saw ourselves, and the road itself being not of several stone layers, but of sand and gravel - water would sooner sink into the sand, I think..

@ Robert:

Good doc, thanks! Does the road run through the castellum or past it, Robert?

That's hard to say. We can't tell exactly if this was a straight line, but the archaeologists think that it followed the high ground (as did the Mardjik after that, we don't know if the Marsdijk is also on top of the road itself), so the actual course may not be straight.

From what I know of the goelogy, I think the road may either turn towards the fort, or bypass it, keeping to the high ground.

@ Jurjen:

Aitor, do you mean the trench i've marked in the picture?

Jurjen, that's either a drainage ditch that existed before the road was constructed, or it's a marker ditch, dug by the engineers who built the road.

@ Stefan:

Well, all of this (judging by profiles) looks like path to me, not like built road, or I am terribly wrong?

No, it's a decent road alright. maybe no Via Appia, but they would wheel track - it was used by vehicles.

The path that Jurjen refers to may be a separate path (I was told on Friday) that was found to the north. It's also from the Roman period, but not hardened with gravel but with shells.

Must be the cyclepath to the main road.

[Arahne]

When I used terms path and road I was speaking about construction, not usage. Simply You can not convince me that 5 cm of gravel mixed with earth (that is what I see on the profile pics) could be called "built roman road" . Maybe we are speaking about different constructions. By the way You heaven't answered my question how thick is the gravel layer?

[Robert Vermaat]

When I used terms path and road I was speaking about construction, not usage. Simply You can not convince me that 5 cm of gravel mixed with earth (that is what I see on the profile pics) could be called roman road . Maybe we are speaking about different constructions. By the way You heaven't answered my question how thick is the gravel layer?

Well Stefan, maybe you won't call it a road but the archaeologists do and that's good enough for me. The thing is, a 'Roman road' as you seem to define it, can't exist here - it would be too heavy. Roman roads were constructed in different manners through different terrains. Your 'road' is also not found when going to boggy terrain, for instance.

Trust me. It's a Roman road by all definitions. Please don't look down on it becuase it's not paved with marble slabs. :wink:

And yes I did, yesterday in fact.

[Arahne]

You are still not following my words, I am not speaking about possibilities in which roman road could be built. What I am speaking about is interpretation the pics you showed us. I don't know what archaeologists say, the pics show very thin layer of gravel between two earth layers. I now that geographic conditions, terrain in that part of empire differ from moesia superior. I just believe that building a road supposes harder construction. And nobody speaks about marble slabs, not even slabs. In castrum here in Singidunum, there are no traces of slabs at all ( we found them in the streets outside castrum) but it seems that castrum streets were made of gravel, mortar layers with unfinished stone fragments- substruction. And now about Your road in fact You may be right if the road was devastated by land cultivating-by plow (don't know the proper word) it can show itself like plane of destructed layer of gravel. OK it could be devastated road . Everybody is satisfied.
What I am teaching my younger colleagues is Don't believe everything You hear from another, especially older colleagues, but try to explain it reasonably to yourself.

[Robert Vermaat]

You are still not following my words, I am not speaking about possibilities in which roman road could be built. What I am speaking about is interpretation the pics you showed us. I don't know what archaeologists say, the pics show very thin layer of gravel between two earth layers.

Oh yes I am, you can't believe that this is a Roman road because you think it's too flimsy. And you can't accept that local conditions could cause a Roman road to look kie this.
Well, fair enough, but this is what has been observed elsewhere along the Limes in The Netherlands, and it fits with what was expected.
And I told you what the archaeologists say - it's the military road that follows the Limes!

I now that geographic conditions, terrain in that part of empire differ from moesia superior. I just believe that building a road supposes harder construction.

As I said you were thinking. But I'm telling you what I know, and what I'm told by the guys who are digging this up. And no, nobody here is surprised by the look of it.
What I told you about the 'heaviness', which you sem to insist on, would have sunk away into the soil here, which is probably why the engineers opted for sand and gravel. Call it a 'Roman Road Light' if you want.
Maybe we should begin a new thread on Roman roads, could be useful.

And nobody speaks about marble slabs, not even slabs.

C'mon Stefan, I said that with a wink - joke!

In castrum here in Singidunum, there are no traces of slabs at all ( we found them in the streets outside castrum) but it seems that castrum streets were made of gravel, mortar layers with unfinished stone fragments- substruction. And now about Your road in fact You may be right if the road was devastated by land cultivating-by plow (don't know the proper word) it can show itself like plane of destructed layer of gravel. OK it could be devastated road . Everybody is satisfied.

No, there are no traces of any road surface being destroyed later. Like I said, it does not look like anything that was not suspected. Further away to the west, the road surface is not make of gravel but of shells - local material. The gravel here may be local, they still have to research that.

What I am teaching my younger colleagues is Don't believe everything You hear from another, especially older colleagues, but try to explain it reasonably to yourself.

Oh don't worry, I have my thoughts about it. Good advice.
But on the other hand, some good advice from me: don't deny what you think does not fit your pattern - allow yourself to be surprised and expand your thinking.

[Arahne]

Ok RObert, just thought that some reconsidering could be interesting. That is why we all are here. Bellow the road is clay or some other type of soil? This whole topic is interesting for me that is why I am asking questions. Do you have some larger map that showes the traces of roman roads nearby?