Leather covered clipeus

[Robert]

Salvete!

I searched RAT, but found no clear reference. This subject may have been discussed before, but here's the question all the same:
In those cases where a clipeus or scutum have been found to be covered with leather, was this rawhide or tanned leather? If tanned, would one diagonal row of stitching be acceptable (two pieces of leather) or would it have to be a single piece (one hide)? Alternatively, the leather could be glued on just joining the seams and painting.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[Marcus Mummius]

Hi Robert,

I strongly believe rawhide was used as shield covering. Rawhide often get's tanned when it's buried in the soil. So if a shield was found with a tanned leather covering it's possible that it was originaly rawhide.

I wouldn't sew two parts together, I'd just glue them and paint over it.

I think the Romans would have used one piece most of the time but if leather supply was low I'm sure they would have used several pieces.

Vale,

[Robert Vermaat]

I was told by fellow-reenactors that leather-covered shields are not that much bettere protected. Even blunt sword strokes take chunks out of the leather, so imagine what sharp edges would do to it.

Rawhide, on the other hand, is immensely sturdy.

[Marcus Mummius]

I was told by fellow-reenactors that leather-covered shields are not that much bettere protected. Even blunt sword strokes take chunks out of the leather, so imagine what sharp edges would do to it.

Rawhide, on the other hand, is immensely sturdy.

Very true! Leather is worthless compared to rawhide...

[Dan Howard]

Indeed. Leather only becomes useful as protection if it is hardened. This hardening process attempts to render it more like rawhide.

[Robert]

OK, thanks. No leather, it would seem! Perhaps someday I can lay my hands on a big piece of rawhide, till then, linnen will have to do, with a stitched on rimcover made of rawhide. That works fine.

[caiusbeerquitius]

You could cover the linen with gesso (gypsum and hide glue mix). Some of the Dura shields were made that way. Easy to paint, as well.

[Robert]

Doesn't that mixture crack when struck?? Perhaps I should soak the leather in hideglue What is the mixingrate of gypsum to glue, is that known?

[caiusbeerquitius]

Doesn't that mixture crack when struck??

I don´t think. Should be quite stable. If the layer is too thick, though, then yes.

mixingrate of gypsum to glue

Just take glue instead of the amount of water you would need.

[M. Demetrius]

If the rawhide is thick, say cowhide, you won't need to do much to it to make it tough. It's guaranteed to be tough, just as it is. It gets thinner as you move down the ribs from the spine area, predictably, but it's plenty strong. I don't know about mixing glue instead of water, though, as it has taken a day or so for the rawhide to soften completely (feels really slimy when it's ready to stretch), and that might be a pretty amazing amount of glue needed for the soak bath.

Might be a good idea to put the glue on the wood, then stretch the rawhide over that, though. That way, everything would dry at the same time, and the glue might penetrate the rawhide a little. I've not done that, so I can't speak from experience. Anybody?

[Robert]

Hi Demetrius, I looked up the thread on rawhide scutum covering and the tests Matt did. It seems solid evidence for widespread use of leather/rawhide as a covering for scutum or clippeus is still thin. Perhaps I'll just stay on the safe side and opt for linnen covering of the clippeus.

[Matt Lukes]

That's the thing about the Dura finds- more seem to have had fabric than skin. Those fragments that are described as having leather on the outside are lost so that description cannot be checked, and the one we all know that has rawhide on its faces (both), that skin is described as parchment- i.e., very thin, which would seem to preclude it as a protective layer; it's on both sides too, which also suggests it wasn't protective. One has nothing but gesso on the wood.

Of course these finds are too few in number to really conclude anything, but it certainly does seem that just like everything else, there was a fair amount of variation...

[Tarbicus]

that skin is described as parchment- i.e., very thin, which would seem to preclude it as a protective layer;

Not so fast :wink: We don't know if parchment was just a general term for any thickness of rawhide in polite society at the time.

[Matt Lukes]

Well if you can find any definition of parchment that means thicker than what it'd be taken as now, be my guest to submit it Jim! :wink:

[Tarbicus]

But Matt, the usual paper-like parchment involves scraping, degreasing, and preparing for writing on. Did they go really through all that effort and bother for a shield layer? :wink: :wink:

Parchment is a material for the pages of a book or codex, made from fine calf skin, sheep skin or goat skin. According to the Roman historian Varro, Pliny records, it was invented about the beginning of the 2nd century BC, in Pergamon, Asia Minor, as a substitute for papyrus. In the Middle Ages European parchment in turn was largely replaced by paper, a Chinese invention that was being manufactured in Moorish Andalusia in the 11th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchment

Check out this page as well:
[url:iht13xvx]http://www.kb.nl/cons/leather/chapter1-en.html[/url]
Manufacture
The definition of parchment used in this publication and taken from Kneep en Binding, states that it is a skin treated with lime water and dried while stretched.

No mention of it being thin there, only that it needs to be treated with lime water and dried while stretched.