Reconstructing a Roman Warship

[Celer]

Salve,

It might be an ideal opportunity to see if a Batavian Soldier could swim in all his kit. Any volunteers ... Peronis or Caballo?

Celer :lol: .

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

ahahaha me thinks not.............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heXXf6doZsQ

:lol:

btw would love to see that 3-d model as a special battle mod in RTW/R!!!!!!

(without the FC Bayern Munchen sails of course!)

Great info!!!

M.VIB.M.

[Robert]

My pleasure!
BTW, A Batavian soldier in all his kit would sink like a stone without his horse to hang on to! There is a group here which wanted to try it as a publicity stunt, but never went through with it for safety reasons. A consideration was that modern day rivers in the Netherlands are VERY unlike the flatland delta rivers we used to have here in Roman times. Rivers nowadays are compressed into one deep, fast moving channel, ideal for motorized, deep laden shipping, but spelling disaster for oar powered biremes (unless rowing downstream, towing it upstream again would probably rip it apart, this is why I can't really envision it sailing from Millingen to Xanten) or horsepowered Batavians.
A liberna in RTW would indeed be very nice, especially manned with archers (flaming arrows into sails) and toting a balista or onage. Mind you, the Mainz and Oberstimm ships are quite nice, too, though less dramatic. Oberstimm predates Mainz a few hundred years, nice to see the building changes while the overall appearance stays the same.
The Masala shipwrecks in Italy (check the Navis site) were probably Liberna, by the way!

[Praefectusclassis]

http://home.arcor.de/berzelmayr/bireme.html

This is the liburna 3D reconstructed in all its glory. I did notice the newspaper had used one of these pictures, quoting the source as the municipality of Millingen, so presumably the person who made this reconstruction is involved as well.

Actually the reconstruction was made by our member Marcus Fichtinger from the drawings by Coates. I passed his reconstruction to the Millingen coordinator, from whence it made its way to the newspaper which gave the incorrect source! We have already slapped the newspaper, but from here I'd like to apologize to Marcus as well! :oops:

[Robert]

Render glory to where it is just. Hail Marcus! Great job, most inspiring. Hope to see it to completion and to be able to add more fighting ships to the Dutch collection myself.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

well i must say his work is awesome!!

Laudes to him!

M.VIB.M.

Return the Romans to the Rhine!

I would rephrase that into:

Return Roman Rule throughout the entire world!!!! NOW!!!

and yes.... i do mean what i say in this case!!!

[Robert]

Nah, think of what your prospects would be if you got dragged off into slavery The chances of being one of the downtrodden are lot higher than being one of those doing the trodding. We had a Third Riecher in these parts who modeled his society around the Roman/ancient ideas, even using the Roman swastika and the eagle, and look where that led us. Returning the Romans to the Rhine in an educational form to allow people to experience the Roman way of life along the border of 108 AD is all the goal I need, thank you Lets stick to ships and stray from politics.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

MODS: please dont delete this one but read it first.....

IMHO your remark about the criminal with the silly walk and moustache is historically totally inaccurate, since he did definetely NOT model his so called empire on the Roman empire.... him and his band of destroyers were worse, Germanic oriented criminals than for instance Caligvla and the praetorian guard or the other Romans ever were for that matter...

Also to compare his distorted use of the inherent peaceful Buddhist and Indian/Indo-European swastika solar wheel symbol is equally incorrect and insulting to the Roman Empire, as well as trying to compare Roman slavery and massacres of enemy villages or tribes (Helvetii) with the systematic!! annihilation on an industrial scale of the members of the Judaean tribe (which is definetely nor has it ever been a race).

they were an altogether totally different thing, different way of thinking and different approach.

there was however an Italian person who was slightly less of a criminal, and who had been a socialist/communist before getting the silly idea he could revive the Roman empire, while not taking into account his country was at that point very much made up of Visigoths and other tribes.....

Also Mussolini's idea of Fascism was totally and inherently different to the Roman idea of Imperio.

so... equally uncompareable...

so when I say Roman rule i mean Roman Imperio, ivs civili, Roman citizenzhip Senatorial and plebeian!! power (no, not as ridiculous as Rome used to govern itself) more of the Roman republic idea than the Empire...
more of a worldwide Pax Romana .....

in which EVERY religion has its place unless it becomes intolerant to anyone else or the state.

(without slavery btw! unless you would consider the present day wage-slaves / exploitation of "factory" workers worldwide, and consumerism/neo-liberalism a form of modern day slavery)

not that far fetched mind you.......

this article does not have anything to do with Existing modern day world politics, rather with my personal deep rooted wish/dream to change and overthrow all governments worldwide and start a new symbolic Roman empire in which everyone! is citizen of the same state, using ONE currency, having freedom of sex, race, speech and religion and full human rights, namely....

Empire Earth!

(no i am not a Trekkie...)

so no reason for mods to bash me now since i am not talking about present day, but future (or so i hope) politics.... however Utopian they may seem....

:lol:

M.VIB.M.

BTW BACK ON TOPIC!!!!


so what time schedule/frame are you working with here Jasper?

[Praefectusclassis]

-Getting this thread back on track-
The grant was just awarded, so I expect more serious preparations will start in the coming months. Don't expect this thing on the water next Summer!

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

of course not! but when is the keel laying ceremony, and will it me in roman style? including Roman priests, formulas, augures, an altar, and legionaries?

I sure hope so!!!

M.VIB.M.

[Robert]

He Jasper, count me in for a uniformed appearance at the Millingen Keel laying ceremony! Impression: auxillary infantry Germania Inferior 1st century (unless I get a decent period cavalry helmet by that time).

MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS, its a nice dream, very New Age, Brother/sisterhood of Man! :roll:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well that is typical of my luck Dan! I went to Pireaus in 2003 looking for Olympia, and none knew where it was! My cousin said it was away to the southern Peloponese for some cermony!

Congratulations Jasper, look forward to seeing your progress!

Regards and happy new year all!

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

count me in for the ceremony too (just in case i make it)! probably 1st century consular appearance... not sure yet wether i will manage the helmet round that time...

or just a legionary.... we'll see...... or even "civil..." still have my complete toga praetexta here!!

M.VIB.M.

[Flavius Promotus]

towing it upstream again would probably rip it apart

Nah, certainly not - if other Roman warships were as stable as the Mainz naves lusoriae, they would have been able to take A LOT of punishment! Our galley has been pulled upstream, repeatedly, and in some cases against a STRONG current. But that does not affect the hull in any way

Jasper, great to hear of this project, it sounds awesome! Reconstructing a liburnian! But a piece of advise based on having taken part in the 'Lusoria project' - be patient, be very patient :wink:

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

will it be like this??