Sword, I century AD

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Did you mean the museum will be in Libia, it was found in Libya, or what Aitor? If I get the job I am hoping for, I will be working in Libya next year, so would be interesting to get to a museum there, if time allows.

Regards

[Tarbicus]

That there definitely looks like a classic hispaniensis. Where's Peter Connolly when you really need him?

[Mitra]

Hi Bruno

Happy to view you have followed my advice to going on RAT.

105 cm is very long, how much is long only the blade? I remember (i dont have the book before me in this moment) the founded hispaniensis dont have this dimension.

A cavalry sword based on infantry model?

I think Bruno have the necessity only of a normal bibliography on roman war equipment like Bishop's and Feugere's books.

[Thersites]

If your work is in the Dakhla Project (nice place, by the way), it is possible that it might be earlier than 1st AD. If it is in Fayum (where I excavated in the eighties!) , also possible. But that pommel could be also early imperial.


Mmm... a typical Republican hispaniensis would be in the range aof 60-70 cm. blade, plus tang and pommel, let's say around 75-85 cm.

Trilobate pommel is also quite typical of republican examples dated to the 2nd-1st centuries BC

An 'hellenistic' era example of [i]Hispaniensis has been published by Guy Stiebel from Jerico.

Hve a look at:
STIEBEL, G.D. (2004) "A Hellenistic gladius from Jericho". E. Netzer, Hasmonean and Herodian palaces at Jericho. Final Reports 1973-1987, vol, II, pp 229-232. Jerusalem.


For the earliest prototypes and evolution:

QUESADA SANZ, F. (1997) "Gladius hispaniensis: an archaeological view from Iberia". M. Feugère (ed.) L'équipement militaire et l'armement de la République. Journal or Roman Military Equipment Studies 8, pp. 251-270.

And (see also tables there)
http://www.celtiberia.net/articulo.asp? ... spaniensis
with:

In general:
CONNOLLY, P. (1997) "Pilum, gladius and Pugio in the Late Republic". M. Feugère (ed.) L'équipement militaire et l'armement de la République. Journal or Roman Military Equipment Studies 8, pp. 41-57

Also there paper by J. Horvat.

Also
ISTENIC, J. (2000) “A late-republican gladius from the river Ljubljanica (Slovenia)".
JRMES Journal or Roman Military Equipment Studies 11, pp. 1-9

See also next post for the pommel

Best Regards


[/i]

[aitor iriarte]

Libya was just a wild guess, Byron. I don't really know more than you do... :wink:

Aitor

[Thersites]

See this from Osuna (Seville), 2nd c. BC. Now in Paris

[Conal]

This fits in well with the developement of the Hispaniensis via a Celt-Iberian version of the Celtic sword as the Tri-Lobate pommel and hilt guard was a feature of Celtic swords.

[Tarbicus]

This fits in well with the developement of the Hispaniensis via a Celt-Iberian version of the Celtic sword as the Tri-Lobate pommel and hilt guard was a feature of Celtic swords.

Good point. It's like the top of the Celtic anthropomorphic style.

[Thersites]

Mmm... not really IMHO. Parallel developments. Celtiberian trilobate pommels are separate in the evolutive line. But yes, even Peter agreed with my view that GladHisp is a Celtiberian version of the LT I sword imported in Iberia in the 4th c BC and modified there during the 3rd and 2nd while the Gauls followed a different evolutive pattern in their swords(see references above)

[Tarbicus]

Mmm... three sticky-out bits seem suspiciously similar to me (head and arms; one version with the arms spread, the other with them folded up). :wink: But I'll defer to your knowledge.

[Thersites]

Yes, indeed you're completely right they are similar in conception. In fact they respond to the same sort of anthropomorfization of the hilt.
My point was (or intended to be, I hurried too much) that there is not a DIRECT link between Celtic anthropomorphic hilts and Celtiberian trilobate hilts. My opinion is that they respond to a parallel development (more than a bit later in Iberia).

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

At the Osuna's relief seems the guard have two pommels, too.

If the blades are 70-75 cm long, to be the whole sword 105 cm the hilting part must have been almost 30 cm long. It's not a exageration:

Trilobate pommel: 10-12 cms. with a pommel diameter of circa 6 cm.
Hilt: 10 cms (a range tipical in imperial swords)
Guard: 5-10 cm.

So, in my opinion, that sword could be a hispaniensis.

[Bruno Bazzani]

I made a mistake: overall length is 101 cm.

And yes, it has been found in the Fayyum (Egypt), last month, by the Lecce University archaeological mission.
It may take a very long time to see it in a museum, since this depends on local authorities decision.
However, before it can be exhibited, it must be restored: if you know any _generous_ fan of the roman army they are always in search for private sponsors :wink:

Many thanks for the bibliographical suggestions.

[Bruno Bazzani]

Blade length is about 83 cm

[Thersites]

Well, when (if) you can post more detailed info wel'll perhaps be able to provide more details and references.

BTW, where are you digging now? I used to work at Ehnasya el-Medina (Heracleopolis Magna) close to Bani Suef, many many years ago... :?
And give my best regards to Gianluca Tagliamonte at Lecce!