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02-01-2003, 07:02 PM

Well, as if the US needs any more on it's plate. Tragic. Yet, how old was the Columbia? You have to wonder if the airframe wasn't stressed. 
Magnus/Matt 
Optio 
Legio XXX "Ulpia Victrix"

Jeroen Pelgrom · 02-01-2003, 07:12 PM

Salve, 
 
according to dutch tv, spaceshuttle colombia made its 28 journey. Spaceshuttles are build for around 100 journey's. Plus, after eacht trip, the entire spaceshuttle is being refitted. According to the dutch expert, age was not the problem for this shuttle. More likely is that something fell of of the leftwing which damaged the heatshields. 
 
gr, jeroen

***Praefectusclassis*** · 02-01-2003, 07:28 PM

Though I think it was on CNN that someone said that though shuttles are indeed built for 100 missions, age might have had something to do with it here. Maybe it was designed for 100 missions in 10 years, not 100 in an unlimited number of years? Greets 
 
Jasper

Jeroen Pelgrom · 02-01-2003, 08:28 PM

just checked, 
 
NASA had 5 space shuttles : Columbia (first flight in 1981), Challenger (1982), Discovery (1983), Atlantis (1985) and Endaevour (1991). The Columbia was 22 years old... 
Seems indeed rather old for a spaceshuttle. But, i don't know the life-expectancy for such a thing. Also, i don't think NASA sends a spaceshuttle up into space every month or so. So 100 missions in a period of years (10/ 20/ 30 or so), i don't know.. 
 
gr, jeroen

Catiline · 02-01-2003, 08:31 PM

columbia first flew in 1981, it was the first one up.

02-02-2003, 01:29 AM

<img src="http://images.andale.com/f2/116/115/6042312/1044149209337_schuttle2.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
 
 Following Apollo 
 returning from near heaven 
 On the wings of Icarus 
 We salute the fallen seven - Dave

02-02-2003, 01:58 AM

Apparently when the shuttle launched, a piece of debris (perhaps ice condensed on the big orange fuel tank?) fell and bounced off of the left wing, possibly damaging the heat shield tiles. 
 
wow, what a bummer.

02-02-2003, 03:39 AM

How strange. Just last night I was talking by phone with my good friend Dr. Yoji Kondo, who is assistant to the number 2 man at NASA. He told me that Ginny Heinlein (wife of Robert A.) had died. We didn't even discuss the shuttle mission, which had become so routine. This morning, minutes before the disaster, If I had stepped into my front yard and looked up, I would have seen the Columbia fly overhead (I live in New Mexico.) 
Their lives were cut tragically short but were not wasted. They died doing something great. 
I am enough of a Roman to believe in auguries and such. When they build a replacement shuttle, they'd better not name it something that begins with C.

02-02-2003, 08:56 AM

Apparently, any new shuttles to be built will be next generation ones. I think a great name would be either "Defiant" (no reference to Star Trek), or "Indomitable" (no reference to the British warship.) These two names, in light of all nation's tragedies of space exploration, would represent their commitment to exploring the final frontier. 
Magnus/Matt 
Optio 
Legio XXX "Ulpia Victrix"

Jeroen Pelgrom · 02-02-2003, 10:11 AM

Well, i hope that Bush isn't going to shut down the spaceprogram because of this. The thing i also found rather strange was the announcement of it on dutch tv. The first thing that they said that was : "the columbia has exploded, it was not a terrorist attack". Shows how much everybody is influenced by 11 sept. Hopefully NASA is going to the bottom of this and keeps on going into space. 
 
gr, jeroen

Goffredo · 02-02-2003, 05:42 PM

I am shocked and yet know very well that every atsronaut knows he risks his life. In particular the shuttle did not yet offer true survival chances in case of major problems. Will future versions of the shuttle ever give the crew a second chance, especially in the delicate moments of rentry? 
 
We should all occasionaly stop to think of how close death is to each and every one of us in or because of our high tech machines and human weaknesses: a blow out on a fast curve, a dose-off while driving, a distraction while crossing the street,...

JRSCline · 02-04-2003, 01:29 PM

I have always particularly liked this 80s song by Peter Schilling, whose lyrics translate as: 
 
MAJOR TOM (COMING HOME) 
 
Standing there alone, the ship is waiting. 
All systems are go. "Are you sure?" 
Control is not convinced, but the computer 
has the evidence. No need to abort. 
The countdown starts. 
 
Watching in a trance, the crew is certain. 
Nothing left to chance, all is working. 
Trying to relax up in the capsule 
"Send me up a drink," jokes Major Tom. 
The count goes on... 
 
4, 3, 2, 1 
Earth below us, drifting, falling. 
Floating weightless, calling, calling home... 
 
Second stage is cut. We're now in orbit. 
Stabilizers up, running perfect. 
Starting to collect requested data. 
"What will it affect when all is done?" 
thinks Major Tom. 
 
Back at ground control, there is a problem. 
"Go to rockets full." Not responding. 
"Hello Major Tom. Are you receiving? 
Turn the thrusters on. We're standing by." 
There's no reply. 
 
4, 3, 2, 1 
Earth below us, drifting, falling. 
Floating weightless, calling, calling home... 
 
Across the stratosphere, a final message: 
"Give my wife my love." Then nothing more. 
 
Far beneath the ship, the world is mourning. 
They don't realize he's alive. 
No one understands, but Major Tom sees. 
"Now the light commands this is my home, 
I'm coming home." 
 
Earth below us, drifting, falling. 
Floating weightless, coming home... 
Earth below us, drifting, falling. 
Floating weightless, coming, coming 
home... 
home... 
 
----------- 
 
I remember the first shuttle disaster, the Challenger. I was just walking into my high school classroom, and there was a TV on, with my teacher crying, and the image of a great white cloud across the sky. 
 
This time, Rob and I had just got home, and I was watching our fishtank, with the TV on for background noise. CNN was on, and the shuttle was due to land, but it was being reported as being 2 minutes late. And then they showed the clip, and I said to Rob, wait a minute, it's coming in -- in pieces! That's not right! Sure enough... 
 
Very sad, if only because we know them as people, as astronaut heroes. 7 people dying of disease in Africa doesn't make me bat an eye. I wonder if that makes me callous, or just normal. Anyway, I feel badly for the families. And I hope the end came quickly. 
 
Jenny

02-05-2003, 02:41 PM

You bring up a good point Jenny...People don't usually give a rat's bum about 10 people getting killed in an avalanche, or 7 people in a massive car crash. Yet because these people were astronaughts, they are automatically termed heroes, and what happened to them a disaster. That must mean then, that these people are more important than common folk like us. Or is this a trick of the media? 
 
Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Astronaughts, school teachers, garbage men, they all die. I don't see any difference. We're all human, right? 
Magnus/Matt 
Optio 
Legio XXX "Ulpia Victrix"

02-05-2003, 08:57 PM

I think that the difference lies in what they were doing. Space exploration is seen as something both important and heroic and it's hard to argue with that. It is of course absurd to weigh the value of one human life against another, but that isn't what news is about. Millions of deaths occur every day and we won't hear about most of them. Does this, then, mean that no death should be reported since it makes one seem more important than the others? 
The other factor, of course, is celebrity. When a Princess Di or a JFK, jr. die in otherwise commonplace vehicular accidents, the media buzz with nothing else for days. That's just the nature of celerity in the modern world. At least the deaths of the astronauts won't reach quite that level of vulgarity.

**Robert Vermaat** · 02-06-2003, 12:19 AM

A nice and fitting song, Jenny. I learned today that the remains of the astronaut recovered (amazing) were those of the Israeli colonel Ilan Ramon, 48 (and oldest on board). I found it strangely comforting to know that his remains were going home to his loved ones. In a way, those of the rest of the crew were already home, even if strewn out as ashes. 
 
Robert

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