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incline plane fasteners commonly known today as the screw was a discussion i recently had with a buddy.
my friend wanted to know why all my gear was either riveted , nailed , lashed , or pegged.
i explained that these attachment methods were the standards for the time , 5BC-2ad and were used because of reliability, strength and being a simple way for the legionary to make and repair his equipment.
well, my friend comes along and tells me the Greeks invented the screw in 5 BC and the Romans were using it in 1 BC in wine and laundry presses.
also that the Romans made wood screws fabricated either by hand filing the thread into a tapered shaft or wrapping a wire around a tapered shaft ad soldering the wire onto the shaft. he also stated that it seems the knowledge of the screw as a fastener was lost with lots of other information when the empire fell.
can't anyone comment on this?
if he's right then i guess the wood screw would be appropriate for use as a fastener?
thanks,
secunde
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Hello!
Tell your friend he's wrong. Romans never used such kind of fastener. The screw used for the presses (torculum) is not tapered, it's only to control the pression make by a weight into the grape.
For sure, please continue using rivets! :lol:
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Also the Archimedes screw! as a method of moving things.......
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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Not exactly! It's for raise or extract water. It's a no end screw inside a pipe. If we rotate the screw, the water gets off by the top end.
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Yes ok!! still the idea started somewhere! is all I am trying to say! instead of transporting water, a fastener "transports" the wood up its spiral, until it gets to the end, but as the screw is not fixed as in a water device, the screw transports it self into the wood! The same principle put to a different use! :wink:
We use the screw for transporting cuttings away from the fluid/solid seperators into storage/transportations recepticals!
I have seen this wire soldered onto a shaft somewhere though!
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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maybe that water device utilizes an acme thread, which is square cut for heavy work. these threads can be seen on metal laths and common machinery.
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Quote:[...]
well, my friend comes along and tells me the Greeks invented the screw in 5 BC and the Romans were using it in 1 BC in wine and laundry presses.
also that the Romans made wood screws fabricated either by hand filing the thread into a tapered shaft or wrapping a wire around a tapered shaft ad soldering the wire onto the shaft. [...]
I think what your friend meant or should have said, was that the Romans knew about and made use of screw threads, e.g. for medical instruments:
http://www.ingenious.org.uk/See/Medicin ... wby=images
What comes closest to the use of a screw for fastening something that I know of, are the multipart late Roman/early medieval fibulae (don't remember clearly, sorry), where parts of it end in a screw thread and are held in place by being screwed into the main corpus thus.
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Zwibelknopffibeln, cruciform brooches... 8)
Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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Quote:Zwibelknopffibeln, cruciform brooches...
Thanks aitor, that's what I was meaning! And I found the "e" that dropped out of your Zwi[e]belknopffibeln on the way ;-) )
A detailed study of both the fibulae and specula can be found in
Deppert-Lippitz, Barbara: Die Schraube zwischen Macht und Pracht : das Gewinde in der Antike. [eine Gemeinsame Ausstellung des Museums Würth in Künzelsau-Gaisbach und des Archäologischen Landesmuseums Baden-Württemberg anlässlich des 50jährigen Jubiläums der Adolf Würth GmbH 38, Co. KG in Künzelsau-Gaisbach im Jahre 1995 vom 8. April bis 16. Juli 1995 im Museum Würth in Künzelsau-Gaisbach Sigmaringen : Thorbecke, 1995.
Look at the title for one of the fibulae screws: http://www.antikbuch24.de/buchdetails_1900198.html
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Thanks, Martin! :oops:
Have you seen that book? Is it good and worth what it costs? (i.e. Good explanations, technical drawings, detailed photos?) 8)
Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.
Rolf Steiner
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The Romans knew both Bewegungsschrauben and Befestigungsschrauben, but they mostly used the former (Archimedes' screw and the olive press). Use of the later was confined to medical instruments or juwelry. Most screws were made out of wood., particularly the olive press. In particular, the Romans did not know the use of screws for fastening wood planks or beams which is a rather recent innovation.
As an article for mass production the screw is not older than 200 years. In China, the continous screw was even totally unknown until introduced after 1500 from Europe. On the other hand, Heron of Alexandria already described a screw-cutter 100 AD.
Although, as with most ancient and also medieval inventions, the concept of the screw was not used to its full potential, I would place it still among the great inventions of the Greeks. fact is that even Gutenberg's printing press was first out of wood, and agricultural screw presses were made routinely out of wood until the 18th century, as one can see in any exposition on early modern agriculture.
The main obstacle to mass production for the Greeks and Romans remained metallurgy, not technological insight into its advantages.
I am right now collecting material on ancient and medieval screws. I can help out a bit with articles, but I am also interested in new material. Is that book above good,?
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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Aitor & Stefan,
I can highly recommend this book. It has very detailed analyses on a number of objects and very good pictures. For me especially interesting is the one on the screw thread part of a speculum, done by the Wuerth quality and material laboratory (Wuerth is the company that did the exhibition the catalog mentioned above is about and is an internationally renowned tool manufacturer). You even get microscopic images of the screw thread of that piece. I don't remember much about the other things as my interest was mainly with the speculum when I last read in it, but I would consider it a valid and comparatively cheap offer by the dealer at the URL I cited above. I'd buy it myself if a friend of mine wouldn't have it in his library already ....
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