Lamellar and cataphract armour

[Theodosius the Great]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but....


Does [size=150:35mckuty]this[/size] show lamellar armor ?

Because it looks very similar to the Palmyrene relief. I know the Roman statue is thought to be a linothorax but could an alternate interpretation be that it's lamellar ?

~Theo

[MeinPanzer]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but....


Does [size=150:2ul3o5ak]this[/size] show lamellar armor ?

Because it looks very similar to the Palmyrene relief. I know the Roman statue is thought to be a linothorax but could an alternate interpretation be that it's lamellar ?

~Theo

That's an Etruscan statue, and here is a tomb painting showing an Etruscan soldier wearing just such a cuirass:

http://www.antiquemilitaryhistory.com/i ... uirass.jpg

As you can see, the strips are off-white. I would presume that it is composed of linen strips.

[Theodosius the Great]

Ah, Etruscan. Thanks for the correction. I only knew it was Italian.

So, does that mean the Palmyrene reliefs probably also show linothoraxes as well ? The statue's looks almost identical to the relief armor, IMO, especially if you look at the upper edge of the top row (the neck line) - see, there are two horizontal strips with a narrow gap between them.


~Theo

[Theodosius the Great]

Ave Marcus,

Thanks for the links.

Might give you somewhere to start. I have also seen some engravings showing something that appears to be lamellar or locking scale styles of armor around the 6th century in Italy.

Do you know of book or website where you've seen these depictions ?

The only 6th century Italian example I know of is this Ravenna mosaic of Christ. I wish I could find other contemporary examples.



Thanks for any more help you can offer.

~Theo

[MeinPanzer]

Ah, Etruscan. Thanks for the correction. I only knew it was Italian.

So, does that mean the Palmyrene reliefs probably also show linothoraxes as well ? The statue's looks almost identical to the relief armor, IMO, especially if you look at the upper edge of the top row (the neck line) - see, there are two horizontal strips with a narrow gap between them.


~Theo

I have no idea, but I doubt it. Metallic lamellar had been worn in the east for quite some time, and I think that the armour of those statues are probably just an extension of that tradition.

[Tarbicus]

Another Etruscan possible:
http://www.maravot.com/Etruscan_mural_orcus.gif
Mural from the Tomb of Orcos

http://www.maravot.com/Etruscan_Phrases_a.html

[MeinPanzer]

Another Etruscan possible:
http://www.maravot.com/Etruscan_mural_orcus.gif
Mural from the Tomb of Orcos

http://www.maravot.com/Etruscan_Phrases_a.html

Yep, that's the same kind, and the two soldiers with cuirasses on the "Battle of the Greeks and Amazons" on that page also wear the same kind. I think some figures on the common Etruscan cisterns also wear them, and they often still have paint remaining on them as well.

[Theodosius the Great]

Peter Connolly also interpreted the Etruscan statue armor to be lamellar. On page 70 of "Greece and Rome at War" the caption says it's a "linen cuirass reinforced with lamellar plates." Of course, the book was published some 30 years ago and he may have reassessed his oringinal interpretation but I don't know one way or another.

~Theo

[MeinPanzer]

Peter Connolly also interpreted the Etruscan statue armor to be lamellar. On page 70 of "Greece and Rome at War" the caption says it's a "linen cuirass reinforced with lamellar plates." Of course, the book was published some 30 years ago and he may have reassessed his oringinal interpretation but I don't know one way or another.

~Theo

Unless all those plates were painted the exact same colour as the linen strips making up the pteruges and the solid linen components of the cuirass, I highly doubt it. Every colour representation of such armour that I've seen has been offwhite. To be honest, I really have no idea how it would be made of linen, but considering the colour iconographic evidence it seems more likely than iron or bronze.

[Marcus Julius]

Ave Marcus,

Thanks for the links.

Might give you somewhere to start. I have also seen some engravings showing something that appears to be lamellar or locking scale styles of armor around the 6th century in Italy.

Do you know of book or website where you've seen these depictions ?

Yup, in the armour archive's forums. The following thread titled: I wanna be a Visigoth. Most of the depictions are mail, but there are some which have been determined to be lamellar.

[Theodosius the Great]

Thanks, Marcus. That link had some really good info

BTW, can anybody identify this relief ? The picture comes from a French website and the caption (i had translated online) says it's from Sicily. Judging from the men's hair length and lack of facial hair I'd say the relief depicts 5th or 6th century Romans wearing lamellar. Can anyone confirm my suspicion ?



Thanks in advance

~Theo

[Paulus Claudius Damianus]

Hello Theodosianus where the picture come from? I maybe help you...

[Theodosius the Great]

Thank you for offering your help, Paulus

The website is here : [url:151z2hky]http://www.montjoie.org/Divers%20projets%20et%20partenariat/Objets/lamella.htm[/url]

~Theo

[Robert Vermaat]

The website is here : [url:2yypcj1j]http://www.montjoie.org/Divers%20projets%20et%20partenariat/Objets/lamella.htm[/url]

The text implies that the chequers pieces come from Sicily (11th c.), but doesn't say anything about that column. From the context I get the impression that it's medieval though.

[Paulus Claudius Damianus]

That's right. No commentary and context about the picture but the subject show medieval sources...