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Mysterious dodecahedron
#1
Any thoughts on what this might be?

Museum of Antiquities object

How convincing are their suggestions? Any alternative theories?
Carus Andiae - David Woodall

"The greatest military machine in the history of the universe..."
"What is - the Daleks?"
"No... the Romans!" - Doctor Who: The Pandorica Opens
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#2
Can't see anything David. :?
Ioannis Georganas, PhD
Secretary and Newsletter Editor
The Society of Ancient Military Historians
http://www.ancientmilitaryhistorians.org/


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#3
Whoops!

Let's try another way:

[Image: dodek.jpg]

[Image: dodek2.gif]

Quote:The bronze dodecahedron was found during the 19th century excavations of South Shields Roman fort (Arbeia) and bequeathed to the Society of Antiquaries of Newcastle upon Tyne by Robert Blair, a local solicitor who was involved in the work at Arbeia over many years.


The twelve-sided object is hollow with flat faces and knobs at each corner. Large circular holes of different sizes are pierced through each face, all but one are surrounded by three incised concentric circles.

Bronze dodecahedra have been found on many sites in the northern provinces of the Roman Empire in contexts which range from the 1st - 4th century AD.

Two others are known from the north of England - from Corbridge and Newcastle upon Tyne. Their purpose has been widely discussed without any firm conclusion being reached. Suggestions have ranged from surveying instruments to candlesticks to polygonal dice . A recent suggestion is that they are sceptre heads but the argument is not conclusive and further evidence is required for these enigmatic items to be fully understood.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Accession Number 1923.13.

Width of each face:52mm, Length of each face:48mm
Carus Andiae - David Woodall

"The greatest military machine in the history of the universe..."
"What is - the Daleks?"
"No... the Romans!" - Doctor Who: The Pandorica Opens
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#4
I've seen them in several museums (Mainz, Tongeren) and as far as I know, nobody knows what they are.
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
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#5
For some reason they remind me of that Etruscan bronze liver that was I think used for divining.
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
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#6
Quote:For some reason they remind me of that Etruscan bronze liver that was I think used for divining.

Oh! That's an interesting one.
Carus Andiae - David Woodall

"The greatest military machine in the history of the universe..."
"What is - the Daleks?"
"No... the Romans!" - Doctor Who: The Pandorica Opens
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#7
Could they be containers of some "myrrha-like" substances, to give odour and keep the perhaps sticky substance inside without it tarnishing the fabrics etc? Perhaps for religious purposes?
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
Moderator
[Image: fectio.png]
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#8
I feel they were part of the "mystery calts" that were popular with the Roman Army. I might suspect Mithras Mysteries but the initiation ranks in the calt were 7 not 12 if I recall correct.
So I am under the impression that might be connected to the less well known calt of "Dolechenos Dias" (Dolichin Zeus - Jove Dolechinus?).
Ancient Greeks related number 12 with Zeus so it is a possibility that it survived in the newer religion.

Hope it helps.

Kind regards
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#9
Maybe you hung them from your chariot - a 1st-4th cent. version of fuzzy pink dice.
Pecunia non olet
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#10
Perhaps it's some sort of Ancient Bling. The ancient equivalent of Mr. T's gold chains?

It was probably used in some sort of ritual....
Michael Griffin
High School Teacher who knows Latin & Greek
felicior quam sus in stercu
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#11
Ah - ritual. The prehistorian's term for "We don't know what it is" :lol:

So, something religious seems the most popular theory. I can't think of anything which immediately springs to mind that links Mithraism with the number 12.

Though I do like the Roman furry dice idea :wink:
Carus Andiae - David Woodall

"The greatest military machine in the history of the universe..."
"What is - the Daleks?"
"No... the Romans!" - Doctor Who: The Pandorica Opens
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#12
I don't have but probably will be of great help a tipology of such objects:

B. A. GREINER, "Römische Dodekaheder. Untersuchungen zur Typologie, Herstellung, Verbreitung und Funktion", Carnuntum Jahrbuch 1995, págs. 9-44

In that work are a corpus of 93 of such objects.
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#13
And some examples from Louvre, picture from romancoins.info

[Image: c-2005%20(17).JPG]
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#14
Looking at the picture posted by Cesar, it just struck me that those could have been dice-like gaming implements! Of course I can't see all the sides there, but those you can see are all different combinations of holes with differing diameters and varying amounts of concentric engraved circles. With a little training you could easily read the result(s) from e.g. the top side of a "dice throw" with one of more of those. Would make for a 12-sided die. The drawing first posted by David also seems to follow such a pattern. Hm, I'll have to keep my eyes open for more pictures of those (actually I know I already saw a few, but never paid them closer attention till now ... :-P P )
Might of course also have been used for some sort of divination in that way ...
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#15
some kind of lamp?
gr,
Jeroen Pelgrom
Rules for Posting

I would rather have fire storms of atmospheres than this cruel descent from a thousand years of dreams.
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