Full Circle Panuela ?

[Primvs Pavlvs]

I have just procured some heavy wool with vertical stripes in the wool. I was curious if anyone has made a full circle cloak, instead of the standard half circle.

[Magnus]

You mean...kind of like a Jedi robe minus the sleeves?

[Primvs Pavlvs]

To be honest Matt I have no idea what a Jedi robe looks like. What I am wanting to make is essentially two half circles sewn together to make a full circle, and have the hood attached in the center. Then again I might just follow Matt Amts instructions for the oval shaped one.

[M. Demetrius]

I'm just asking, so here goes.
Stripes are known, of course, and civilians could wear whatever they wanted, stripes, solids, plaids, etc., but did the military wear stripes?

I've made several paenulae, and what I've determined is that it's really a rectangle, a little longer in the back than the front, such that when worn, the hems are more or less equal. Then, since the shoulder line drops down from the neck to the deltoid, the corners are rounded off in about a 12-14 inch radius, so the points don't drag.

I make mine about mid calf long. Much longer, and they get in the way if you have to walk through any kind of long grass, or brush, briars, etc. And even that length, when walking up a steep slope, sometimes you can step on the hem.

What would the advantage of a full circle be, other than giving more cloth for a blanket? I've found that the regular rectangle form makes a perfectly good double layer blanket. But that's just me.

[John M McDermott]

Could you describe this fabric more? Sounds interesting

[Matt Lukes]

I thought that circular vs. rectangular was the difference between the paenula and sagum, respectively. I found that you actually want a 270-degree circle or so, so the cloak can close in the front- something a half-circle won't do very well. The 'Camomile Street Soldier' clearly has a cloak of the more circular type as it closes straight up the front...

[Primvs Pavlvs]

Matt this is exactly what I was wanting to try since my half circles use a large amount of wool, and its hard to find really wide pieces. I want to make a full circle one that will totally cover a person.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Hello people, I bought my paenula from Armillum, in spain, and it is excellent, good heavy wool, and closes around me even in my segmentata. The hood is a bit pointy, but hopefully that will learn to droop with wear. Perhaps you could get some ponters from him on his sources?

Sincerely

B. Angel

[M. Demetrius]

Maybe I missed something, as usual, but I thought a paenula is a hooded cloak, open in the front and under each arm, while a sagum is a rectangular blanket/wrap, often pinned up at one or both shoulders. Am I on the right track? Naturally, the paenula can be closed at the front with ties, fibulae, etc, and held closed around the sides with a belt or cord.

My own experience is it's nice to have some way to secure the garment so the wind doesn't blow in too much, but that closure can't interfere with drawing the gladius or pugio, else it's not effective for that other function.

(I also thought a lacerna, similar to the paenula, was a waterproofed hooded cloak)

Now my scutum is up, fire away.

[Matt Lukes]

That's right David- paenula= round hooded cloak, sagum=rectangular 'blanket'- but what you wrote before was

I've made several paenulae, and what I've determined is that it's really a rectangle

So I thought that maybe you had the terms mixed up.

The thing now is that I've never heard of the paenula being specifically open under the arms or anything like that though- it's just a regualar circular cloak, closed at the front by two buttons and two toggles (see the Camomile Street Soldier sculpture). Of course suggesting that there were formal, specific styles may not be so accurate- however the evidence I know of certainly supports this particular type. Do you know of depictions of a type that has extra openings?

[M. Demetrius]

OK, agreed. Put on your paenula, and extend your arms straight out to the sides. See? From the wrist down to the bottom it's not sewn like sleeves...it's open. When your arms hang down, it gives the feel of being covered, but you can put your hand on your sword without moving any cloth.

That's the side openings I was talking about. Has to be that way for it to be an effective military cloak. Right?

[Tarbicus]

I thought the paenula was just hitched up at the sides onto the shoulders for access to the gladius? It seems that way on all of the sculptural evidence I've seen.

[M. Demetrius]

If you look at the picture, you'll see that the side is open. That's all I meant. If it were closed, it would be sewn down the side, with a slit for the arm, like a typical cloak you'd find these days, or a Kinsale (sp?) cloak from days gone by, or a riding cloak from the Chas. Dickens era.

Semantics, not a construction issue, I reckon.

[Matt Lukes]

Ah, okay- from the way you wrote, I thought you were saying there SHOULD be specific openings in the cloak for the arms. Just a misunderstanding then Save for the paenula being rectangular

[Tarbicus]

Ditto :roll: Sorry.