I wanna go to war with the Dutch

[stevesarak]

'I wanna go to war with the Dutch'

I wonder if they're still going to charge or would it be for free. If they're charging, going to war seems a round about way to blow :oops: your money.

[claudia crisis]

Jona, you forgot 1 style of leadership: the belgian model. In this model the boss is an utter fool and incompetent, but has the right political or social connections to keep him at his post.:wink:

Hans

We have that in England too - it's called:

Rising to the level of your incompetence

Seems to apply universally to all Local Government/Council offices at least

Hilary

[Tarbicus]

In this model the boss is an utter fool and incompetent, but has the right political or social connections to keep him at his post.:wink:

I've found that those types are not actually the fools we think they are, usually rising up the ladder and seeming to do quite well for themselves when all is said and done :wink:

[tlclark]

So much for your introductory course Dutch Society.

Jona, you forgot 1 style of leadership: the belgian model. In this model the boss is an utter fool and incompetent, but has the right political or social connections to keep him at his post.:wink:

Hans

That's not the Belgian model, that's the American model. Most commonly known as the Peter Principle: Everyone will eventually be promoted to their level of incompetence.

Related: The Dilbert Principle: Bad workers will be promoted to the position where they can do the least harm: management.

[tlclark]

On a related note, there's a great book called "Leadership and Self-delusion."

It basically states that bad leaders are not bad people, they just don't realize they are the problem.

I have found this to be true. I had a boss who personally, was a great person, but was a horrible person to work for.

Travis

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

Jona, you forgot 1 style of leadership: the belgian model. In this model the boss is an utter fool and incompetent, but has the right political or social connections to keep him at his post.

Hans

i'm working for a project at the Dutch ministry of Defense and i can say that they have the Belgian model here.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

REMEMBER REMEMBER........

The stern decoration of the English flag ship which was nicked by the Dutch naval force in the 1600's is still in our national rijksmuseum!

REMEMBER REMEMBER.......

The Dutch are the main nation responsible for the UK IRA Northern Ireland troubles, orange marches and all........

hehehehehehe
feel free to go to war with us....... but remember...it has to be safe! and no shots are allowed to be fired, and if you shoot you get judged for murder by a civil! court of law... and if there is but one casualty amongst the troops the Dutch parliament will probably pull you all out, due to thegrave danger you are in......

and also...... be sure to get a non-working mandate of the UN...... that helps in negotiations with certain fat serbian generals.......

M.VIB.M. :twisted:

[Dan Diffendale]

I'm pretty sure that by "Go to war with the Dutch" he meant he wants to serve with the Dutch in war, rather than war against them...

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Oh I know! i know!!!

would be lovely!!!!!!

:lol:

M.VIB.M.

[hoplite14gr]

Dutch troops are very good quality.
But some of the their best successes came when were not under a Dutch commander in chief :!: A phenomenon in need of historical study in my opinion. Two examples:
Berezina defence by the Dutch grenadiers of the French Imperial guard who saved the Grande Armee strugglers (1812)
Grenadier regiment "Westland" held Zitomir against overwhelming Soviet forces (1943).

Kind regards

[Robert Vermaat]

Both against Russian forces..

Auch, 'Westland' was one of the Dutch SS units, not one we remember these days. hock:
They were called 'Kriegsverlängerer' by their fellow German soldier (War Prolongers).

[Caius Valens]

If the Brave Dutch take to the feild I will offer my services, oops: :wink: hock: I here Dutch women are rather pretty :wink: Cheers Caius/Thomas R

[Jona Lendering]

Of course the best Dutch unit ever was the RSB (Rijschool Bergen op Zoom, Driving School at Bergen op Zoom), which in the 1980's, among so many other important tasks, bravely defended the Dutch border against the wicked Belgians.

And joking apart now: one of the best "Dutch" units were the Papal Zouaves. All in all, there were about 14,000 of them during the eleven years of their existence; about a third came from Holland; about a fourth from Belgium; and of course many others came from the other Catholic nations of the world. They defended the pope against the Italian forces, defeated Garibaldi at Mentana (1867), became famous for their beserk-like attack on Monte Libretti, and many of them were killed in action at the Porta Pia in 1870. Because their officers were French, they are often called French. Most casualties among the Papal Zouaves, however, fell during another war: in Lazio, against cholera, in which the Papal Zouaves acted as some sort of Red Cross.

In his book De vuist van de paus ("The pope's fist"), historian Wim Zaal, summarizes that although the boys may have served the wrong system, no one will deny that their blows struck home.
Here is a link to the Zouaven Museum of Oudenbosch, and here is Van Gogh's famous portrait of a Papal Zouave:

[hoplite14gr]

Thanks for info on the "Papal Dutch" Jonah. Laudes for you.
One of the reasons I love this forum is that I learn things.
Still you seem to add to my argument that they were led by non-Dutch needs to be historicaly examined.

Robert, history is just history and I am not fan of "Holywood history".
The Dutch grenadiers were good troops. My wife's grandfather told her that his company exclaimed "Hurra" when told that the Dutch were relieved by other troops in their sector.

Kind regards

[Jona Lendering]

Still you seem to add to my argument that they were led by non-Dutch needs to be historicaly examined.

You may have a point that Dutch soldiers must be led by foreigners. Even more, I may be able to offer an explanation: Dutch officers are, like every Dutchman, always looking for consensus. Which is not effective in war, although highly recommendable in other circumstances.