Spanish Falcata sword - Woerden - Netherlands

[Robert Vermaat]

Hi Fernando,

Thanks for the fast clear-up! No disaster at all, your information was fast and very clear. True, this can happen sometimes, without proper knowledge, but at the same time this has given us a fast overview of falcata-like shapes.

[Thersites]

Hi! Indeed! But please only keep in mind that the figure mixes Bronze Age, Early Iron Age and Late Iron Age specimens from all over the Mediterranean -literally, from Smyrna in Turkey to the Spanish Meseta!

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Well. Scientif research is a hard and time consuming work and can't be made in a few minits and searching pictures by google or so.

The identification and correct valoration of a piece includes a lot of parameters like context, direct observation of the thing, and a guest for paralels (pieces similar to the one studied).

Some people try sometimes to put a personal opinion, based in bad researched or vague arguments, and called it "scientific investigation".

Military archeology and military re-enactment consist in make a good research of the disposable evidence, inside a particular context (cronology, geographic zone, etc...), and sometimes try to fill the holes of evidence with logicall theories.

That good research must includes the critic study, not always asumption, of the previous work. Sometimes, the wrong thing is ignore that work...

[hephestus]

I make excuses myself with Fernando if I have not read its book, the designs have been finds to you on an Italian forum, I will say to they this.
Thanks to Fernando for the clarification, that it is what we all want.
I hope not to have made twisted he.
However it is possible to know from Fernando which are the substantial differences between Kopis and Falcata. Inasmuch as blade and grips are nearly identical to the look?
Best regards
Hephestus

[Thersites]

No need to apologize, Hephestus! The scan from the Italian forum in turn comes from the one in MyArmoury I cited above.
Anyway, have you visited Tarraco Viva with tha gladiators of Ars Dimicandi? In that case we have probably met, as I've been lecturing there during the past three events.

Now, differences between Greek kopis, Italic machaira and Iberian falcata are many. I'll try to very briefly summarize


OriginGreek Italic Iberian
Blade long long short
slender slender broad
usu. straight very curved curved
Grooves if any, thin and shallow Thin and shallow. Simple Wide and deep. Complex
Main edge All length of blade Distal half All length
Dorsal (secondary) edge No No Yes
Use Slashing, over arm Slashing, overarm Cut&thrust, underarm
Pommel Bird’s head. Volute Bird’s head. Volute Horse head, Bird head, geometric
Hilt Many small rivets Many small rivets Few rivets
Hilt pieces Metal Organic Organic
Silver inlay dec. No No Yes

For details, see above publication and my web page equus (see below signature)

[hephestus]

Thanks of the good explanations.
Perhaps we have come to contact to Tarraco Viva, I am a gladiator of Ars Dimicandi. I hope to meet to you also in 2007.
Vale Optimae.
Hephestus

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

I personally would still like to have all the info on the find in situ... where was it found, which part of the excavation, which layer, what was it surrounded with, if anything.....

anyone has the full info?

M.VIB.M.

[Thersites]

I personally would still like to have all the info on the find in situ... where was it found, which part of the excavation, which layer, what was it surrounded with, if anything.....

Ditto

[Antonius Lucretius]

Hi there everybody. Long time no see..
That Falcata... Kopis... Machaira... Sort of single edged weapon is pretty interesting.
First of all the style as far as I can see looks awfully germanic. The back of the handle looks very much like a bird executed in the germanic style.
Could it be a seax?
These came in many shapes and sizes.
However, because there is always an however: this lump at the top of the blade looks very much like the little knife traditionnally attached to the weapon we are discussing, cross guard included. It is set a bit too high though.
Incidentally, "falcata", much like "lorica segmentata" is a modern name.
It seems the Romans called it a "Spanish machaira".
I humbly admit I learned it from the ineffable Wikipedia, but they quote Fernando's writings.
So.. It is definitely not a falcata.. Whatever it is.
But whatever it is, I am pretty sure the smith who made that weapon knew what a machaira was. This type of handle can only mean a heavy, single edged slashing, or mostly slashing weapon of the meat cleaver category.

[pvblivs cordvs]

Hi all,
sorry to join so late in the dance. I was kept busy.

I was actually at the presentation of this sword; I live in Woerden.
The original location of the sword is less than half a mile from my house.
I'm saying the original place because it was told at the presentation, which was, by the way, because of Woerden's new drive-in museum, not because of the find of the sword that the sword was found in soil removed less carefully from the site which was later checked, on request of the archeologists, for artefacts by amateur-detectorists.
They found it, so the actual find-circumstances sadly have been destroyed.

At the presentation the sword was unpreserved, and yet unstudied and was quite correctly announced as -probably being a falcata sword of sorts which could be from Spanish-related troops-. It was further announced that it still needed a lot more study before anything definitive could be published about it.

After proper treatment it will most likely be displayed in the museum here in Woerden.
Naturally I'm quite interested in this object and will keep you posted when
I hear something new about it.

Cheers,
Wim / Cordvs

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

aiiiiiiiiii archaeology at its worst...........

but if you hear anything new, please inform us!!!!!

M.VIB.M.

[Igor]

Salve!
J think this is a germanic single-eaged sword similar to this one. It is form Oksywie culture II c.B.C. southern Baltic cost this days in Poland Oksywie culture seems to be germanic ethnos.

[Jeroen Zuiderwijk]

They've posted an update on this blade at the Hazenberg Archeology website (June 21 2007):

"The presentation of the "falcata" from Woerden at ROMEC in Xanten has led to a new origin of the weapon. In their lecture, Wouter Vos and Tom Hazenberg told about their search for the origin of the Woerden sword. They've had extensive contact with the falcata expert dr. Quesada Sanz. He was very interested in the sword, but pointed Vos and Hazenberg to the differences between the Woerden sword and the standard type falcata.

At the ROMEC every two years all Roman weapon experts gather from all over the world. By presenting the sword here, the chance was great that specialists would come up with new ideas. That was the case. Wouter Vos didn't finish speaking and many reactions came from the room. Most direct clues came from Scandinavia and the Baltic coastal area. After the afternoon session addresses were exchanged and the following weeks it will be made clear whether there is a real connection between the castellum of Woerden and the far free Germania."

Original article and photo:

www.hazenbergarcheologie.nl/pages/posts/falcata-zwaard-germaans102.php?p=15

B.t.w. thanks for that photo Igor! That seems like an intermediate version between the Woerden sword and the typical single edged blades found f.e. in Denmark and Sweden (such as these).

I came across another blade recently, which shows some resemblance to the Woerden sword found at Aby Gammelgard, Denmark:

[Thersites]

Well, that's a bit of an understatement. My final (written) words were (29th May)
"I any case, I would again recommend you to have a look at those Germanic one-edged weapons from Vimose and other contexts, some of them of Roman Early Imperial date, as the shape of their blades fits better with your specimen -provided the size and shape in the pictures you sent are those of the original sword, and that the blade profile has not been badly distorted by corrosion".

[MeinPanzer]

Salve!
J think this is a germanic single-eaged sword similar to this one. It is form Oksywie culture II c.B.C. southern Baltic cost this days in Poland Oksywie culture seems to be germanic ethnos.

I don't think that picture shows an Oksiwia culture grave. Oksywia culture graves very, very rarely had weapons in them and the shield boss and barbed spearhead indicate a date in the 3rd century AD or later.