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I have been doing a study on recent gentic developments, it seems that Mendel`s principles are now seriously out dated. Heridtary science has been turned upside down by RNA and protiens on the DNA molecule. Jan.07 Discover mag has some simple expalnations of such. To explain, two id. twins raised separetly have shwon to have a huge height and size difference both brought up in differnet environmemts. However markes have been found to continue o next genrations and switches occur all the time depedent upon envirnmental factors, not gentic. Certain proteins prduce certain switches. Things get even more complicated.
What I am getting to is I feel the original Romans were an ethnic group(maybe they were Latin,maybe not) were just simply a stronger,tougher more athletic than others for unkown reasons. Maybe genetic,maybe that horrible garrum they ate,who knows? However ,DNA alone will not supply this info but other chemicals will and perhaps we will discover something to that efffect soon.
Afterall, how can such a small group of people conquer so much with hand to hand style fighting. Some will say the mighty gladius,some will say military organiztion,some will say their desire for gore,etc. However, the answer could be in science more than any of the above.
I do not feel the Romans had superior miltary technolgy than others as the recent finds are suggesting. I do not believe the gladius is a miracle sword or even the best in its time,in fact I thing it was a negative. I think the Romans just were stuborn to change to a longer sword, even after they adopted Celtic metalurgy skills that allowed for a longer sword to be produced. The gladiius ideal for formation, I doubt it. I would not be comfortable with a shorter sword,period either with stabbing or slashing.
Perhaps the Romans did not need superior weapons in hand to hand. Looking at their defeats they only occured when trapped or eastern bows kept them at bay. We cannot go by Roman historians because we all know they exagerated their opponents prowess for a myriad of reasons.
So , maybe the Romans had something else, a kin to Nenatherthal strength, that is all. Not saying Nenatherthal DNA is here, some say not present in modern humans DNA, others say not so fast..it may, now that we have new technques. Maybe the Romans lost their edge by simply gaining others DNA,RNA and other envirnmental factors(different diet,etc.). Just a theory here.
Ralph Varsity
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Avete omnes,
self-evidently, only the well trained (and paid) Praetorians were able to fight the most frightful opponents:
http://plottsfamily.homestead.com/files ... diator.JPG
Greetings from germania incognita
Heiko (Cornelius Quintus)
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
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very crucifyable persons in this picture!!!
an insult to Rome's history!!
cant stand those nutters at the Amphitheatrum flavium.......
M.VIB.M.
Bushido wa watashi no shuukyou de gozaru.
Katte Kabuto no O wo shimeyo!
H.J.Vrielink.
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Probably bad decisions from the emperors. Imagine if Tiberius had allowed Germanicus finish his campaign. Or ir Comodus had continued his father campaign. Or Caracala had finished the conquest caledonia. And so many other cases.
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Quote:Probably bad decisions from the emperors. Imagine if Tiberius had allowed Germanicus finish his campaign. Or ir Comodus had continued his father campaign. Or Caracala had finished the conquest caledonia. And so many other cases.
Like I said, the Romans themselves...
They were highly militarised, to the extent that they would almost have to go to war to keep the legions well-oiled and ambitious commanders happy. Also, the legions were the reason the Roman Empire existed. Had they let the legions "fall into disrepair" they would have gone down far earlier. The "barbarian" tribes constantly probed the border, skirmishes were common. In the end, the Empire might have been the seed of its own destruction...
"There are some who call me... Tim..."
Sic vis pacem, para bellum
Exitus acta probat
Nemo saltat sobrius
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
Fortes Fortuna Aduvat
"The enemy outnumber us a paltry three to one! Good odds for any Greek!"
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Quote:Maybe the Romans lost their edge by simply gaining others DNA,RNA and other envirnmental factors(different diet,etc.). Just a theory here.
Don't know about the DNA issue--and I'm certain the following has been referred to elsewhere on RAT (perhaps even in this thread which I've only now had a chance to skim)--but the lead in pipes can be documented to have affected health and infant mortality. (At least, that is the reasonable argument I have read before... based on studies of human remains.)
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Microbes, disease, plague, ....... same as it has been for all civilization.
Caius Fabius Maior
Charles Foxtrot
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maybe the Romans had something else, a kin to Nenatherthal strength, that is all. Not saying Nenatherthal DNA is here, some say not present in modern humans DNA, others say not so fast..it may, now that we have new technques. Maybe the Romans lost their edge by simply gaining others DNA,RNA and other envirnmental factors(different diet,etc.). Just a theory here.
There is a very well known scientist you should contact, his name is Bob Brier... he might be very interested in your theories...
also, the renowned scientist Erik von Daniken would highly likely agree totally with your idea.
:lol:
M.VIB.M.
Bushido wa watashi no shuukyou de gozaru.
Katte Kabuto no O wo shimeyo!
H.J.Vrielink.
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Quote:also, the renowned scientist Erik von Daniken would also highly likely agree totally with your idea.
:lol:
M.VIB.M.
Oooh... Irony... 
Well, if nothing else, von Daniken has some interesting theories. But that's OT...
"There are some who call me... Tim..."
Sic vis pacem, para bellum
Exitus acta probat
Nemo saltat sobrius
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
Fortes Fortuna Aduvat
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Someone will probably have better arguments as Im not a specialist of this question, but I have read that the lead hypothesis is a myth... well, until recently lead was used for water, and I doubt it had much impact on modern civilisation apart from some cases of saturnism...
Quote: So , maybe the Romans had something else, a kin to Nenatherthal strength, that is all. Not saying Nenatherthal DNA is here, some say not present in modern humans DNA, others say not so fast..it may, now that we have new technques. Maybe the Romans lost their edge by simply gaining others DNA,RNA and other envirnmental factors(different diet,etc.). Just a theory here.
During the Empire, roman soldiers were not italians but Gauls, Britons, Germans, Illyrians... Just ask all the late roman re-enactors around, the late roman army was still of excellent quality.
"O niurt Ambrois ri Frangc ocus Brethan Letha."
"By the strenght of Ambrosius, king of the Franks and the Armorican Bretons."
Lebor Bretnach, Irish manuscript of the Historia Brittonum.
![[Image: 955d308995.jpg]](http://www.ciberupload.com/uploads/955d308995.jpg)
Agraes / Morcant map Conmail / Benjamin Franckaert
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Quote:TITVS PVLLO:98nmqet0 Wrote:rome's most fearsome enemy
The Picts!  I agree with this....and Attila!
and how about the British weather......hehehe
Cristina
The Hoplite Association
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The enemy is less likely to get wind of an advance of cavalry, if the orders for march were passed from mouth to mouth rather than announced by voice of herald, or public notice. Xenophon
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Quote:Someone will probably have better arguments as Im not a specialist of this question, but I have read that the lead hypothesis is a myth... well, until recently lead was used for water, and I doubt it had much impact on modern civilisation apart from some cases of saturnism...
Yes, but "until recently" no one knew that lead was killing the very people served by leaded plumbing.
Lead probably didn't kill the empire (I'm sticking with my suggestion [see above] that it was lack of a universally accepted and followed succession scheme for emperors ), but it probably weakened, if not killed, many individual citizens, of whatever nationality.
"Fugit irreparabile tempus" (Irrecoverable time glides away) Virgil
Ron Andrea
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The Romans looked different than others physically. They had a sinuous type muscular feature and facial features that was strangely not European looking. If they were a Latin tribe they did not resemble the others. I have looked at. I am not talking about the late empire because at that time the 'original' Romans were basically no more. I am trying to contact other scientists about my theory that the Romans were different (genetically) and that was their advantage over others along with the reason the western empire slowly declined. As recent discoveries have shown genetics is much more complex a science now.
Hopefully if the Romans were shown to be a physically stronger branch it will not diminish their positive things they contributed to western civilization. As I know that is a fear many will have and simplifying all that Rome has done to mere genetics. However, I feel Science is overlooked here. It is not possible for such a small tribe of people to conquer so much without modern weaponry is never even considered. Warfare at the time was in its simplest of forms not so far removed from early man as many think.
Time combined with dilution of the original DNA may prove out to be the real end of the empire.
Ralph Varsity
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That will certainly be interesting if it proves out.
Some isolated populations exhibit attributes which assumedly increased their survival advantage in their native habitat, but I have never seen evidence of such an application (other than the discredited attempts of Nazi "scientists" prior to World War Two) to a large, complex population.
Of course, as you say, the original Romans may have been such a specific tribe. I confess to being slightly disillusioned that they were not descendents of the survivors of Troy, as Virgil told us.  :wink:
Please continue to share what you discover.
"Fugit irreparabile tempus" (Irrecoverable time glides away) Virgil
Ron Andrea
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The Romans looked different than others physically. They had a sinuous type muscular feature and facial features that was strangely not European looking.
This is getting silly!!!
please SOMEONE!!! lock this topic!!!!!!!!
M.VIB.M. :evil:
Bushido wa watashi no shuukyou de gozaru.
Katte Kabuto no O wo shimeyo!
H.J.Vrielink.
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