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The only problem with the idea that Josephus was looking at his enemy and discribing it from that point of view is that by the time he did most of his writing he had changed sides and was accompanying Vespasian and Titus around and so would probably have been quite familiar with what he was describing. :twisted:
Crispvs
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Of course it could just be that they weren't wearing the swords regulation fashion.
Find me an army, ever, where everything was done by the book during a war.
Nik Gaukroger
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Good point.
Matt J.
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It always seemed odd to me that Josephus should arrange the Gladius and Pugio contrary to the received view. I had thought it a translation error (I have had occasion to read that Knights wore their sword on the right in certain scholarly texts, which was obviously an editorial error), but I see that it is not just one translation. Assuming that it is not a mistranslation or editorial oversight, the Centurion arrangement always struck me as a possibility, but I like the Auxillary argument better. I think Nicholas' speculation is just as likely, though.
Matthew James Stanham
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I'm inclined to agree with Wim / Cordus that Josephus is looking straight at the soldier rather than from the soldier's perspective. Either that, or he just got confused and couldn't tell his left from his right. I know quite a few car passengers like that - it comes out when they try to give directions.
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That would make Josephus a bloom'n idiot then...lol.
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Magnus/Matt
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Quote:I'm inclined to agree with Wim / Cordus that Josephus is looking straight at the soldier rather than from the soldier's perspective.
Hope I'm not being rude but I do find such explanations assume that the Romans always did everything "by the book" which is, IMO, highly improbable hence my comment earlier. It strikes me that it is trying to force the evidence to fit a pre-conceived view rather than judging the evidence on its merits.
Not that I'm suggesting for a minute that we should ever be uncritical about evidence :lol:
Nik Gaukroger
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If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith
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Not to mention it assumes that Josephus is too moronic to realize that his left and right become the opposite when viewing someone head on. If that's the interpretation of this man's intelligence, why do we believe anything he says?
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Magnus/Matt
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...and what about when he sees Centurions or Auxillaries head on? No, the explanation seems unlikely, but there still remains the possibility that Josephus wrote it down wrong or it has been altered in transmission. I have often wondered why he bothers to mention it at all. When Polybius tells us about the right hand side wearing of swords, the inference is that it was to his mind unusual. Why does Josephus remark on it? Is it because it was unusual for Romans to wear them on the left or unusual in general at that time? What side do the Jews wear their swords on?
Matthew James Stanham
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I'm just a Latin I student, but sometimes word order makes translating things from Latin confusing to our syntax. Could it be nothing more than just a translator or copyist's error?
M. Demetrius Abicio
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I have suspected that.*shrugs*
Mike
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All sources for wearing of equipment is not all literary,either. A picture(relief,statue) is still sometimes worth a thousand words.
Andy Booker
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Hi,
the original Greek text and the English translation by Whiston of the passage is here:
The Judean War III.5.5
Well I have learnt old Greek for some time, but today I don't know even the basic things (very difficult language, I'd say). I think, the translation is OK, but hey - look at the previous sentence again... :roll:
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Alexandr
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Quote:All sources for wearing of equipment is not all literary,either. A picture(relief,statue) is still sometimes worth a thousand words.
Unless the sculpter was looking dead on at an individual! :wink:
Many possibilities outside the text exist to explain Josephus' statement; are there any other indications within the text, though?
[Edit]
Hmmn. Yeah, I had forgotten that Josephus also describes the Cavalry wearing their Swords on their right hand side. A very odd passage; I can't make head nor tail of the Greek and my computer is not rendering it properly, so that doesn't help...
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one\'s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.
Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)
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Quote:I can't make head nor tail of the Greek and my computer is not rendering it properly, so that doesn't help...
Perhaps you haven't the right font... see the instructions
Alexandr
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