Ars Dimicandi about european Reenactment in german news

[Tib. Gabinius]

Thats right, but take something different.
The amazonic sarkophags of the 2nd and 3rd century show often women fighting (a) and the use of double headed battle hatchet (b) like they are present normally only in religious context.
So, its hard to compare with a katana, but its close to "lets make a roman soldier, female and with double headed hatchet, cause the romans showed it to us and so its close to their use"...

Thats why i m so hot to get the sources of AD to take a look how they work behind that "artistic" way.
And of course i give that chance (uh, sounds very patronizingly, but isnt ment that way) i think i m not hostile, just sceptic like i was teached to be at the university.

I just can link myself to Susannas words.

[Ebusitanus]

I would just want them to share their knowledge with us. Every reenacting group has its own forum but over here quite some people from all over meet and exchange views and knowledge.

[Velite]

Gabinus wrote

If it would be presented as reenactment like so many others, i wouldnt have a problem with it, everyone like he wants, but in context to "serious work on historical field" i get a problem with it...
____________________________________________
Sorry, but what did i say? Please quote the passage you mean, so i know what exactly you mean and be able to answer.

Here it seems me to understand from your words that Ars in year 2004 it didn't introduce as group reenacment.

Gabinus wrote

For now: "glimmering armor" and "new shield" sounds a bit like "the others want to be parade soldiers, but we are in the field". And this I really can't accept. equipment".

You have not understood the sense of my words. In the actual phase of our experimentation, we don't interest the details on the cuirasses or on the helmets.

Gabinus wrote

Also the sentence part "what they really wore" sounds like "what the others wear isn't the right equipment".

To this intention however I can tell you Gabinus, that ARS a lot of times we have offered to so many groups of reenactors to fight against us, to make exercise or to compare the techniques of fight. Many of these groups have refused the offer for the strangest motives,: some have said that in that way their equipment would be ruined (cuirass and shield), others have said that they didn't have desire of it, others they have said that it was too much dangerous.
Some have accepted instead, but after the first time they have not wanted to repeat a second time. Ars Dimicandi what we should think?

Ebusitanus wrote Quote

...with his secretive ways...

I don't understand what you wants to say.
Secret ways?

MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS wrote

...the films you participated in...

???? I have never participated in any films. Only two or three people of Ars Dimicandi have participated to a film. We don't generalize please.

that is experimental archaeology. wearing a leather segmentata is not!

For You it will be so, for us no. Who are you to judge what it is correct and is thing wrong?

But do not say you are totally accurate and present yourselves as people who know what it was like back then.. no one knows. we all have a calculated guess.

In fact We of ARS have Never said to be the most accurate, we have proposed some Theories, that we try to show with the experimentations on the field. What this point is clear once and for all for all.

there also is DOCUDRAMA!!!

Please you to show one to me... not to quote the film Alexander, that has very little of historian...

If I would want to walk around as a legionary with a katana, i could as well say listen, it was never found, but there is no proof they didnt use it! This attitude is totally wrong if you are trying to re-enact or are engaged in experimental archeology.

She is now insinuating things no true. Why you don't go to read our website? It would understand better perhaps what we intend to say.

Ebusitanus wrote

I would just want them to share their knowledge with us. Every reenacting group has its own forum but over here quite some people from all over meet and exchange views and knowledge.

Please visit our website.

Valete

[Tarbicus]

Could it be time for everyone to drop this for a while? It seems that, as Susanna says, it's all gone very circular, and is starting to become quite distasteful.

The sources aren't going to be revealed, the definitions are all different for what constitutes experimental and reconstruction, etc, and no matter what anyone says it seems to lead to one party or another being inflamed by what's said.

Obviously some answers won't be made for quite some time, and hoping they will come any time soon will just make everyone feel like they're banging their head against a brick wall.

Just my opinion.

[Tib. Gabinius]

Gabinus wrote

If it would be presented as reenactment like so many others, i wouldnt have a problem with it, everyone like he wants, but in context to "serious work on historical field" i get a problem with it...
____________________________________________
Sorry, but what did i say? Please quote the passage you mean, so i know what exactly you mean and be able to answer.

Here it seems me to understand from your words that Ars in year 2004 it didn't introduce as group reenacment.

If i read right, you take the field of "experimental arch." for AD, dont you?
If a group call itself in this way, it isnt just "reenacting", its more, its the stamp of science they print on themselves. That was it, what i tried to told you.
Reenactors can do the educational aspect as well, but the scientific work is something more and they dont belong together, but they can help each other in some ways.
For me, reenactment is a hobby, experimental arch. is a real hard and intensiv job.

Gabinus wrote

For now: "glimmering armor" and "new shield" sounds a bit like "the others want to be parade soldiers, but we are in the field". And this I really can't accept. equipment".

You have not understood the sense of my words. In the actual phase of our experimentation, we don't interest the details on the cuirasses or on the helmets.

Ok, so i didnt recognized you told this as part of the argumentation that the details arent of interest for you.
But you also didnt recognized my answer to this argument.

Gabinus wrote

Also the sentence part "what they really wore" sounds like "what the others wear isn't the right equipment".

To this intention however I can tell you Gabinus, that ARS a lot of times we have offered to so many groups of reenactors to fight against us, to make exercise or to compare the techniques of fight. Many of these groups have refused the offer for the strangest motives,: some have said that in that way their equipment would be ruined (cuirass and shield), others have said that they didn't have desire of it, others they have said that it was too much dangerous.
Some have accepted instead, but after the first time they have not wanted to repeat a second time. Ars Dimicandi what we should think?

I really can understand that arguments. Just ask some historians and arch. how much their experiments had cost, you will see how expensive it is to do it the real way.
And in combats, that is the problem. We cant recreate and test real battles. We can't accept dead people on the feld, neither heavy wounded. And this would be the result of a "real fight".
And after our first engage in Trier 2004 and the missunderstood which leads to metal blade using on AD side and wood on ours, i had a real deep scratch on the backside of my segmentata right where my heart is...
So the thinking these groups have behind is to understand.

But still there are many other groups who train and damage their equipment for the experience. E.g. the Rapax of Hamburg damaged in the time we know 3 or 4 times their shields.
Robert lost i guess 4 or 5 of his training plumbatae just in Fort Fechten...

Theres something more behind "we dont want to fight with you" as just thought "Sissys", and you should try to get the same respect for these way as you ask for yourself.
The difference is: if those groups do such things, they had watched for the details before.
That already sounds very aggressive, which i will not intend. But like Susanna and Tarbicus say, we talk in circles. You asked for, we gave you arguments and just get a "we do it so" back...


By the way, i send a reporter of Karfunkel the short answer of Dario on your side. Hope they will reocognize it.

[aitor iriarte]

You are not the only one thinking so, Jim! :roll:

Aitor

[Velite]

Ok.

This topic for me is closed.
Conclusion: Ars to be wrong and is mistaking everything, you are right and you are in the correct one.

Valete

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

[size=200:14044v75]EDIT[/size]

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for those of you who cannot or do not want to see satyrical cynical dark humour on this site.........

:lol: :lol: :twisted: :lol: :lol:

M.VIB.M.

[aitor iriarte]

Yes, but not that way, Rita
While the same arguments are being repeated over and over again by both 'factions', no one of them seems capable of convincing the other.
WE, the rest of forum members have understood the positions and, therefore, it seems pretty useless to continue insisting on them, moreover when it could only lead to anger and insults, both things that we try to avoid at this forum by all means 8)

Stalemate, then? :wink:

Aitor

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Aitor....... lets build a LIMES!!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

M.VIB.M.

[Tib. Gabinius]

Ok.

This topic for me is closed.
Conclusion: Ars to be wrong and is mistaking everything, you are right and you are in the correct one.

Valete

Oh come on. I can understand that you are pissed off, cause it often sounds like we want to attack you. But we didnt wanted it and wrote it often.
But we often told you: we wait for the sources and the work, that show us, why the world of science shall be wrong till now. We also often told you we dont want to harm you.
What shall we do else?

We tried to argument: we do it like this cause ...
You asked why we often sounds hostile, and we answered.
So, i want to say sorry i you get the impression i had a personal problem with you or AD or wanted to harm you.
But i still waiting for answers to the questions of ressources and still stand behind the univeritary way of science... Thats it.

Everyone of us make faults by the way. And i knew many how have problems if someone tells them if they made one. But that shouldnt be the way we work together
Either you can show us that there ARE sources and we all were wrong, or some day you accept our arguments or we will stay this level right now for all the time, and right now i guess, last solution it is and ever will be.

[aitor iriarte]

Build whatever you want, Henk, but I don't think that your previous post was constructive at all :|

Aitor

[Tarbicus]

One of the very rare and to this date unpublished!! reliefs found in the secret armor room underneath the Ianvs temple in Rome showing a legionary with what is believed a katana type sword....

Ugh. Please. Emboss filter on a composite :roll:

This thread just got silly.

[Restitvtvs]

Ditto on Jim & Aitor's points. Good time to take a break.

[Robert Vermaat]

Not only did this thread get silly, it borders on the insulting.

Rita, my apologies for some unprofessional comments made here.

Gents, let's keep this thread normal and refrain from shouting. If not, the moderators will stop asking members to edit their posts, we will definately start doing it ourselves.

It's absolutely not done to drive members away by discussing a topic too hot!