The name "Octavian"

[john m roberts]

To add the the confusion, in English-speaking countries we have the shortened forms of Roman names, apparently dating from the middle ages and popularized by Shakespeare. Thus:
Octavianus=Octavian
Livius=Livy
Plinius=Pliny
Marcus Antonius=Mark Antony
and so on. Rarely, Cicero's nomen becomes "Tully," but that one never caught on.

[Jona Lendering]

Octavian never called himself Octavian, but Julius Caesar. The boy's name was the boy's fortune. I seem to remember having read somewhere that the name he never used was introduced as early as the fourth century. But of course I have forgotten the author who invented it? Anyone?

Found it! Aurelius Victor, Caesares 1.2 is the first author to use the name "Octavian".

[Sean Manning]

Perhaps I'm being dense, but didn't this thread establish that Cicero used the name Octavian and that it was always part of the boy's legal name? If that's correct, using the name Octavian(us) doesn't seem any worse than speaking of Darius III rather than Darayavush, great king, king of kings, son of somebody.

[SOCL]

Perhaps I'm being dense, but didn't this thread establish that Cicero used the name Octavian and that it was always part of the boy's legal name? If that's correct, using the name Octavian(us) doesn't seem any worse than speaking of Darius III rather than Darayavush, great king, king of kings, son of somebody.

Cicero does appear to refer to him as Octavius, though not Octavianus: ad Atticus 15.2.3, 16.8.1, 16.11.6.

Again, I get the impression that the -anus ending made so famous in modern times is a later invention, as Jona pointed out in at least the particular case of the name "Octavianus."

[Jesper D]

I'm confused too..

When using "Octavian" you are referring to "Octavianus"right? Not "Octavius"...

Do the ancients text still around use the name "Octavianus"? I assume this was the original query? Or was the query regarding "Octavius"?

Did Cicero use the name "Octavianus" or "Octavius" or both? He wrote about him both before and after his adoption right?
It seems a bit odd to me to suggest that the -anus addition was a modern addition, I mean either this form is used in the sources or not, no?

[SOCL]

I'm confused too..

When using "Octavian" you are referring to "Octavianus"right? Not "Octavius"...

Correct.

Do the ancients text still around use the name "Octavianus"? I assume this was the original query? Or was the query regarding "Octavius"?

This was the original query, but as Jona pointed out, it does not appear that any of Octavian's/Augustus' contemporaries used the name "Octavianus." Instead they either referred to him as Caesar (or any combination of his adopted name) or, in the particular case of Cicero, Octavius, "Octavius" being his formal name before his adoption by Caesar.

Did Cicero use the name "Octavianus" or "Octavius" or both?

My Latin is a bit rusty, but he appears to have only used "Octavius" or "Caesar", but not "Octavianus".

He wrote about him both before and after his adoption right?

Only before. Cicero would have had no reason to write about him until after he became a political player through his posthumous adoption; indeed, Cicero probably didn't even know who the boy was before then.

It seems a bit odd to me to suggest that the -anus addition was a modern addition, I mean either this form is used in the sources or not, no?

Not modern, just not contemporary to Octavian's/Augustus' time. As Jona pointed out, the earliest known instance of the name "Octavianus" isn't until the 4th Century CE by Aurelius Victor. Later authors seem to have perpetuated the name "Octavianus".

[Jesper D]

Thanks for clarifying. My main point was that, if as you say, Cicero did not know "Octavius" before he became "Ceasar" why would he ever use the name "Octavius"? Or are you claiming that he kept "Octavius" even after adoption? Or that Cicero was using his earlier name to demean him?

[SOCL]

Thanks for clarifying. My main point was that, if as you say, Cicero did not know "Octavius" before he became "Ceasar" why would he ever use the name "Octavius"? Or are you claiming that he kept "Octavius" even after adoption? Or that Cicero was using his earlier name to demean him?

Cicero would likely have found out Octavian's family background and other such information after the adoption. I'm not claiming Octavian kept the name Octavius after the adoption - quite the contrary. Cicero refers to Octavian as both "Octavius" and "Caesar" - I don't think we should read much into why he chose one name here or another name there.

[Jona Lendering]

I get the impression that the -anus ending made so famous in modern times is a later invention

Exactly, that was what I am looking for. I became interested when I found a book, written by someone who ought to have known better (Ph.D.), in which it was stated that Octavian started to call himself Octavian, which gave me the impression that the author did not understand what had happened. Had the young man indeed called himself Octavian, he would have failed miserably; but he did not have to, as he could use the magic name Caesar.

[Jesper D]

Ok, I'll take your word for it!

So "Octavius" name was simply Gaius Julius Caesar after the adoption then? Nothing to indicate where he came from, no second cognomens? Or would "Octavius" become "Gaius Julius Caesar Octavius"?

So there is no sources from this period using the -anus addition for a second cognomen of adopted persons?

[SOCL]

I would challenge the idea that anyone used any form of an "adoptive-cognomen". The other famous example I can think of is the younger Scipio Africanus, also called Aemilianus for his original family name Aemilius, but there again I don't think he or anyone else ever used the "Aemilianus" name. Rather, I get the impression it too was a later invention, perhaps to create a distinction between the two Scipiones Africani, or as part of a sort of "parrot behavior" where a suggestion becomes accepted fact and thus people assign these adopted names "as fact" retroactively. I haven't done an exhaustive search, but I can't think of a single source that shows that these adoptive-cognomina ever existed except long after the fact... Jona, have you?

[Jesper D]

Most other adopted romans seem to have kept their family names, unless this too is a later invention. This is a bit confusing, I know, but should Trajan be know as Nerva?

Slight confusion on my part here because Trajan's birth name seems to have been Marcus Ulpius Traianus(-anus). By "Octavius" standard he should be named Marcus Ulpius Nerva after the adoption, but he was named Marcus Ulpius Nerva Traianus. Point being that "Octavius" might not be a good "standard".

[Jona Lendering]

So "Octavius" name was simply Gaius Julius Caesar after the adoption then? Nothing to indicate where he came from, no second cognomens?

Exactly. He was not going to broadcast that he was not the real Julius Caesar. The ambiguity was his power.

I haven't done an exhaustive search, but I can't think of a single source that shows that these adoptive-cognomina ever existed except long after the fact... Jona, have you?

I think you are correct that most names were invented later, by people who had to distinguish people.

[john m roberts]

Cicero could hardly have been unaware of the elder Caius Octavius. "Magistrates of the Roman Republic," lists Octavius as a probable Iudex Quaestionis in 63, the year Cicero was consul. He was praetor in 61, but Cicero may have been with his brother in Asia that year because of his handling of the Catilinarian conspiracy.

There seems to have been some degree of leeway in adoptive names. I've long wondered about the adoptive son of the pontifex maximus Metellus Pius, who went by the resounding name of Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Scipio Nasica!

[Lucius Rabirius]

Sorry, but I think i have to clear something here because many opinions go into a wrong direction.

Roman names have three parts: Praenomen, nomen gentile and cognomen.
Eg: Marcus Tullius Cicero or Lucius Cornelius Sulla
P g c p g c

You can do it more complicated if you want and tell more information with your name like this:

Q. Numerius Q.F. Q.N. Vel. Rufus

Quintus = praenomen // Numerius = nomen gentile // Quinti filii = sun of Quintus, filiation // quintus nepos = grandfather // Velina = (one example for) the tribus, where he is from // Rufus = cognomen

Women didnt have political career, so they use nomen gentile- names of the family like
Cornelius Cornelia and after only Minor/ Maior, Prima, Secunda and cognomen.

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Now the interesting part after this exkurs:

If you get adopted, also in republican age and since very long time until late republic, you get the name ...anus!

One famous example:

Publius Cornelius Scipio Aemilianus

Again we have Praenomen, nomen gentile and cognomen, so everything seems normal, but we have also this strange name with ...anus. What does it mean?

This famous guy´s name was Publius Aemilius, after the adoption, he gets the new nomen gentile of the adopting father, beacuse now he´s part of the new family. To sign him as one adopted guy, he gets also his old name as one adjective.

so its Publius (praenomen) Cornelius (nomen gentile of "new" father) Aemilianus (old nomen gentile as adjective).

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By the way he gets also one title for honour: Africanus Minor (for third punic war) and Numantinus (for destruction of Numantia).

So his name was: Publius Cornelius Aemilianus Africanus Minor Numantinus.

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Back to the main story. So it is very normal to have such an -anus - name since republican time and not invention of Shakespeare or late roman time or Aurelius Victor or whatever. Just Octavian didn´t use his name in practise to show he is legitimated sun of Caesar BUT formally it was like this:

1. Caius Octavius
2. (Adoption Caius Iulius Caesar Octavianus,
but he doesn´use, so Caius Iulius Caesar (Octavianus) and then
Imperator Caesar Divi Filius and later also Augustus.