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The name "Octavian"
#31
Quote:So it is very normal to have such an -anus - name since republican time and not invention of Shakespeare or late roman time or Aurelius Victor or whatever. Just Octavian didn´t use his name in practise to show he is legitimated son of Caesar BUT formally it was like this:

1. Caius Octavius
2. (AdoptionSmile Caius Iulius Caesar Octavianus,
but he doesn´use, so Caius Iulius Caesar (Octavianus) and then
Imperator Caesar Divi Filius and later also Augustus.
I think the Roman naming system was never that formal; Aemilianus chose to use the name of his original family, Octavian chose not to do so. Both were possible. I think the one who was irregular, was Aemilianus; how many other examples were there?
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
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#32
I´m sorry, but I´m quite sure, the Roman name- and adoption- system were very formal, roman laws were very precise (as you can see in Mommsen´s work). Actually I think Roman law is one of the most precise and formal systems of the whole mankind. So the adoption was in every case connected with the change of name.

Why should Scipio Africanus be the exception? He was a successfull "normal" general of the republic, it doesnt make sence for him to break the laws for nothing.

Augustus/ Octavian was in very many things one exception, he introduced a new era, he was homo novus, he got adopted, was son of a dictator, fought against Marc Antony, destroyed the whole republic etc etc...

So I´m very sure, the one who is the exception is Augustus and not Scipio in the middle of the republic whithout reason.
Robinson Krämer
a.k.a

Lucius Rabirius
Lykios Polystratou

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.flavii.de">http://www.flavii.de
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"quis porro (...) Asia aut Africa aut Italia relicta Germaniam peteret, informem terris, asperam caelo, tristem cultu aspectuque, nisi si patria sit?" - Tacitus, Germania II
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#33
Quote:Why should Scipio Africanus be the exception?
Because I do not know of many other examples. I did a run through the Fasti Consulares (the only easily accessible dbase I have), and noticed the following -ianus names:

329 C. Plautius Decianus
322 Q. Fabius Maximus Rullianus (or Rullus)
179 L. Manlius Acidinus Fulvianus (adopted, according to Velleius Paterculus, Epitome of Roman History, 2.8 )
147 P. Cornelius Scipio Aemilianus

145 Q. Fabius Maximus Aemilianus
142 Q. Fabius Maximus Servilianus
131 P. Licinius Crassus Dives Mucianus
77 Mam. Aemilius Lepidus Livianus
72 Gn. Cornelius Lentulus Clodianus
61 M. Pupius Piso Frugi Calpurnianus
42 G. Vibius Pansa Caetronianus
23 L. Sestius Quirinalis Albinianus
12 M. Valerius Messalla Appianus
9 T. Quinctius Crispinus Sulpicianus
2 AD T. Quinctius Crispinus Valerianus
7 A. Licinius Nerva Silianus
8 Sex. Nonius Quinctilianus
31 L. Aelius Seianus
32 L. Arruntius Camillus Scribonianus
35 M. Servilius Nonianus
38 M. Aquila Iulianus
38 Sex. Nonius Quintilianus
39 L. Apronius Caesianus
45 Ti. Plautius Silvanus Aelianus
45 M. Pompeius Silvanus Staberius Flavianus

After this, the tria nomina system starts to disappear. Of this list, we have evidence for only two men that they were adopted (bold). I think that's meagre, but there may be some antiquarian notice in, say, Gellius or Varro that -ianus-names indicate adoption.
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
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#34
An interesting conundrum, indeed, Jona. Thankyou for challenging our assumptions and making us think.

It seems that an agnomen in -anus is certainly not the usual way of advertising an adoption. But, as with many other assumptions on your list, this has simply been accepted without proof.

I suspect that Scipio Aemilianus took the agnomen (or had it foisted upon him by the historian?) to differentiate between the myriad other Publii Cornelii Scipiones. Because the whole reasoning behind adoption was, by and large, to shore up a failing gens, the "usual" method was for the adoptee to take his new father's praenomen and gentilicium. Thus, the sons of L. Aemilius Paullus became Q. Fabius Maximus (thus joining the Fabian gens) and P. Cornelius Scipio (thus joining the Cornelian gens). Fabius Maximus is never (to my knowledge) known as Fabius Maximus Aemilianus, but there were no other Fabii Maximi to confuse the issue. Not so with the Cornelii Scipiones, who were legion! (I'm really just thinking aloud here. Smile )

When we come to Caius Octavius and his adoption into the Julian gens, maybe there are other factors at work. If Cicero is the only one to call him Octavian in his lifetime, it is surely an insult.

For example, we know that Titus Pomponius Atticus was adopted by Q. Caecilius, so his new adoptive name (reflecting membership of the Caecilian gens) ought to have been Q. Caecilius Atticus (or maybe Q. Caecilius Pomponius Atticus). But Cicero pokes fun at him by calling him Q. Caecilius Pomponianus (Cic., Ad Att. 3.20). Just a thought ...
posted by Duncan B Campbell
https://ninth-legion.blogspot.com/
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#35
Personally, I wouldn't want anus to be part of my name, either.
Pecunia non olet
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#36
Quote:
Lucius Rabirius:2fhi8iwq Wrote:Why should Scipio Africanus be the exception?
Because I do not know of many other examples.
I suddenly even remembered a counter-example: Gaius Junius Brutus was born as Gaius Junius Brutus, and accepted the surname Caepio when he was adopted. So here we have a man who kept his real name, and honored his new father with a surname. Forms like Scipio Aemilianus may be rarer than we expect, and assuming that every -ianus name indicates adoption is too fast a conclusion.
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
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#37
Interesting. We do have evidence of an -anus name being used in that person's lifetime, however, so I don't think it was only used posthumusly.

Quote:To my Lord.

Saenius Pompeianus, whom I have defended in many cases, since he took up the contract for farming the taxes of Africa, is from many causes a stand-by in my affairs...

Letter of Fronto to Marcus Aurelius, Ad M. Caes. v. 34 (49) (Naber, p. 86)

The Loeb edition of the Letters of Fronto goes on to mention an inscription (C.I.L. vi. 8588; cp. viii. 997) by the wife of this Pompeianus, Fuficia Clymena to Q. Saenius Pompeianus as conductor IIII publicorum Africae, farmer of four public revenues of Africa.

The daughter of Marcus, Lucilla, also married another Pompeianus after the death of the co-emperor Lucius. According to Birley, this Pompeianus was certainly not adopted - he was the son of a wealthy knight of Antioch. (page 161 of his biography; he cites the Historia Augusta 20.6).
David J. Cord
www.davidcord.com
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#38
I think we're at crossed purposes here, David. Names in -anus or -ienus usually do not imply adoption. There are many perfectly normal names of that form -- Jona posted a list earlier. But it seems to have been assumed that, if a person happened to be adopted, he would convert his existing name so that it ended -ianus. Jona has drawn our attention to the fact that, apart from the well-known and often-quoted Scipio Aemilianus, we struggle to find other examples. As I noted above, adoption was normally advertised through other means.
posted by Duncan B Campbell
https://ninth-legion.blogspot.com/
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#39
Oh, okay. I think I got confused. I thought it was odd that someone would think that -anus always implied adoption.
David J. Cord
www.davidcord.com
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#40
Just came across Jona's official version of this "Common error". (A little late in the day, I know ... :oops: ) Kudos to correspondent Kaipias for some interesting points. I still think it's at least possible that Cicero devised the name as an insult, which was then enshrined in later writers (Tacitus, Plutarch, Dio) who perhaps did not know its pejorative origins. Just a thought ...
posted by Duncan B Campbell
https://ninth-legion.blogspot.com/
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#41
Quote:I think we're at crossed purposes here, David. Names in -anus or -ienus usually do not imply adoption. There are many perfectly normal names of that form -- Jona posted a list earlier. But it seems to have been assumed that, if a person happened to be adopted, he would convert his existing name so that it ended -ianus. Jona has drawn our attention to the fact that, apart from the well-known and often-quoted Scipio Aemilianus, we struggle to find other examples. As I noted above, adoption was normally advertised through other means.

What about the case of Lucius Aelius Seianus, the notorious praefectus praetorio of emperor Tiberius. His father's name was Lucius Seius Strabo and ruled with his son as his collegue praefectus praetorio for a while. Seianus was adopted into the gens Aelia by Aelius Gallus.
So, is this not an exemple of a name on -ianus from an adoption?

Hans
Flandria me genuit, tenet nunc Roma
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#42
Quote:What about the case of Lucius Aelius Seianus, the notorious praefectus praetorio of emperor Tiberius. His father's name was Lucius Seius Strabo and ruled with his son as his collegue praefectus praetorio for a while. Seianus was adopted into the gens Aelia by Aelius Gallus.
So, is this not an exemple of a name on -ianus from an adoption?
Nice example, Hans. I'm glad I resurrected this thread. So now we have Scipio Aemilianus and Aelius Sejanus. Wasn't it Sir Mortimer Wheeler who said that one brick creates a suspicion, two bricks create a hypothesis, and three bricks ... Now we need our third brick! Smile
posted by Duncan B Campbell
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#43
Well, just picking one of the list of Jona (from the fasti consulares):

Marcus Servilius Nonianus, the consul of AD 35 with Caius Sestius Gallus. Pliny (HN xxxvii 6 s21) speaks of this consul, otherwise just known as M. Servilius in Tacitus' Annales and by Dio Cassius, and informs us he was the grandson of a Nonius, proscribed by Marcus Antonius. So this would mean that his actual gentilicium was Nonius and he was adopted into the gens Servilia, guarding his old gentilicium as a cognomen ending in -ianus.

Marcus Servilius Nonianus was considered one of the best orators and historians of his time.

Hans
Flandria me genuit, tenet nunc Roma
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#44
Nice work, Hans. Sir Ronald Syme reasoned that his cognomen Nonianus meant that his mother's name had been Nonia. But your explanation is just as good.
posted by Duncan B Campbell
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#45
Hi,

You are right Duncan, he is not a clear example. Younger sons could take their cognomen from the name of their mother. Some famous examples are emperors Vespasianus (from Vespasia) and Domitianus (from Domitia). So, Nonianus could come from Nonia, as supposed by Syme. But first of all, the mother of M. Servilius Nonianus is not known and second of all, in an article in Historia (21, 1972), H. Aigner explores both possibilities (adoption and a Nonia, who would have been the daugther of the senator Nonius, proscribed by M. Antonius) and concludes in favour of an adoption into the gens Servilia of the father of M. Servilius Nonianus, consul of 35 AD. He himself being consul suffectus in 3 AD.

Greets,

Hans
Flandria me genuit, tenet nunc Roma
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