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Re-hilting Materials
#16
your city might have a wood craft store.

these places specialize in all kinds of exotic woods for turning
as well as walnut , cherry and similar woods.

i looked around and found a block of spanish olive wood.

seemed to fit the woods that would be available during the roman era.

very beautiful and marbled with various tones of brown, tan and black.

looking forward to using this for my hilt. though i will make a prototype out of a cheaper wood first for learning purposes so as not to waste the olive. good luck in finding your wood.
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#17
Thanks so much to all.
Gaius Aurelius Calvus
(Edge Gibbons)

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"Mens est clavis victoriae."
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#18
What mainz do you have, is it from the deepka line?
Matt J.
Titus Arabius Matho
Legion XI
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#19
Nope.

It's a blank I'm getting from a private vendor. My current Mainz is the Albion Allectus, with a scabbard from Christian Fletcher. I want a second one...that I work on myself to learn some additional skills.

Calvus
Gaius Aurelius Calvus
(Edge Gibbons)

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LEG XI CPF
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"Mens est clavis victoriae."
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#20
Salve!

When using wood to recreate Roman arms, it is very important to try to establish where an item was made. In the Europe of the Romans, a good number of woods were available, as the tract of Roman occupation covered a fair amount of different vegetation types. In the area along the Rhine, oak would be the predominant hardwood, closely followed by beech. They are in the same forest system, accompanied by birch. Softwoods as a willow could be found along the river banks, the predominant conifer was the larix.
I have done some study on the vegitation types common in Roman times around here (Rhine), but my knowledge of the English names for these species is limited. However, if you could supply the Latin family name, it would be possible to determine if a certain kind of wood was native at the time. Walnut and chessnut for instance were introduced here by the Romans, but the walnut version around that time did not survive here. It was only much later, when horticulture came into fashion, that a variety was developed for this temperature zone.
Salvete et Valete



Nil volentibus arduum





Robert P. Wimmers
www.erfgoedenzo.nl/Diensten/Creatie Big Grin
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#21
Quote:but my knowledge of the English names for these species is limited.

From a tree making app I have, if any use:


Common English Name to Botanical Latin Name

American Beech - Fagus grandifolia
American Elm - Ulmus americana
American Oil Palm - Elaeis oleifera
Apricot / Bonsai - Pinus mume
Austrian Pine - Pinus nigra
Austrian Pine - Pinus nigra 'Geant de Suisse'
Ayacahuite Pine - Pinus ayacahuite
Babylon Weeping Willow - Salix babylonica
Betel Palm - Areca catechu
Betel Tris Palm - Areca triandra
Bishop Pine - Pinus muricata
Black Oak - Quercus velutina
Bollean Poplar - Populus alba 'Pyramidalis'
Boojum Tree - Idria columnaris
Borneo feather palm - Eugeissona utilis
Bottle Palm - Hyophorbe lagenicaulis
Buccaneer Palm - Pseudophoenix sargentii
California Cotton Palm - Washingtomia filifera
Canary Island Date Palm - Phoenix canariensis
Caucasian Fir - Abies nordmanniana
Cedar of Lebanon 'Aurea' - Cedrus libani 'Aurea'
Cherry Palm - Pseudophoenix vinifera
Cherry Plum - Prunus cerasifera
Chieftain Date Palm - Archontophoenix
Chinese Fan Palm - Livistona chinensis
Chinese Jujube - Ziziphus jujuba
Chinese Plum Yew - Cephalotaxus fortunei
Chokecherry - Prunus virginiana
Coconut Palm - Coco nucifera
Colorado Spruce - Picea pungens 'Oldenburg'
Columnar Scotch Pine - Pinus sylvestris 'Fasttigiata'
Common Apple - Malus pumila
Common hackberry - Celtis occidentalis
Common Olive - Olea europea
Common Pear - Pyrus communis
Coquito Palm, Chilean Vine Palm - Jubaea chilensis
Cottonwood - Populus deltoides
Crimean Linden - Tilia euchlora
Crooked Hazelnut - Corylus avellana
Cuban Royal Palm - Roystonea regia
Cypress Oak - Quercus alba 'Fastigiata'
Deodar Cedar - Cedrus deodara
Dongara Mallee - Eucalyptus obtusiflora
Douglas Fir - Pseudotsuga menziesii 'Oudem.'
Elephant Tree - Pachycormus discolor
Engelmann Spruce - Picea engelmannii 'Glauca'
English Yew - Taxus baccata 'Erecta Aureovar.'
English Yew - Taxus baccata 'Melford'
European hornbeam - Carpinus betulus
European White Birch - Betula pendula
Fig Tree/Bonsai - Ficus retusa
Forster Sentry Palm - Howea forsteriana
Grand Fir - Abies grandis 'Johnson'
Guadaloupe Palm - Brachea edulis
Himalayan Pine - Pinus wallichiana
Hornbeam - Carpinus caroliniana
Horse Chestnut - Aesculus hippocastanum
India Date Palm - Phoenix sylvestris
Japanese Cryptomeria - Cryptomeria japonica 'Elegans'
Japanese Maple - Acer palmatum
Japanese Red Pine - Pinus densiflora 'Umbraculifera'
Japanese White Pine/Bonsai - Pinus parviflora
Jelly Palm - Butia eriospatha
Jelly Palm 'Strictor' - Butia capitata 'Strictor'
Large-fruited blackbutt - Eucalyptus pyrocarpa
Lavalle hawthorn - Crataegus x lavallei
Limber Pine - Pinus flexilis 'Vanderwolfs'
Littleleaf Linden - Tilia cordata
Loebner Magnolia - Magnolia loebnerii
Lombardy Poplar - Populus nigra 'Italica'
Macedonian Pine - Pinus peuce 'Aurea'
Madrone, madrona - Arbutus menziesii
Maidenhair Tree - Ginkgo biloba
Mayten Tree - Maytenus boaria
Mexican Pine - Pinus pringlei
Nagi Podocarpus - Podocarpus nagi
Noble Fir - Abies procera
North African Fir - Abies pardei
Norway Maple - Acer platanoides
Oriental Cherry - Prunus serrulata
Oriental Plantree - Platanus orientalis
Oriental Spruce - Picea orientalis 'Skylands'
Palmetto Palm - Sabal palmetto
Paper Birch - Betula papyrifera
Paw paw - Asiminia triloba
Pin Oak - Quercus palustris
Princess Palm - Dictyosperma album
Quaking Aspen - Populus tremuloides
Queensland Black Palm - Normanbya normanbyi
Red Haw - Crataegus mollis
Red Maple - Acer rubrum
Red Oak - Quercus rubra
Sago Palm - Metroxylon sagu
Saucer Magnolia - Magnolia soulangeana
Scarp Gum - Eucalyptus kombolgiensis
Sealing Wax Palm, Lipstick Palm - Cyrtostachys renda
Silver- leaved Bloodwood - Eucalyptus collina
Silver Mallet - Eucalyptus ornata
Silvertop Ash - Eucalyptus sieberi
Slender Palm - Drymophloeus
Sugar Maple - Acer saccharum
Sugar Maple 'Newton Sentry' - Acer saccharum columnare
Sugar Maple 'Temple's Upright' - Acer saccharum monumentale
Sugar or Gomuti Palm - Arenga pinnata
Swiss Stone Pine - Pinus cembra 'Compacta Glauca'
Tupelo - Nyssa sylvatica
Umbrella Pine - Sciadopitys verticillata
Wadbilliga Ash - Eucalyptus paliformis
Weeping Norway Spruce - Picea abies 'Pendula'
Weeping Veitch's Fir - Abies veitchii 'Pendula'
White Ash - Eucalyptus fraxinoides
White Fir - Abies concolor 'Violacea'
White Oak - Quercus alba
White Pine - Pinus strobus
Wild Plum - Prunus americana
Yew Podocarpus - Podocarpus macrophyllus 'Maki'
Yorrell - Eucalyptus yilgarnensis



Botanical Latin Name to Common English Name

Abies concolor 'Violacea' - White Fir
Abies grandis 'Johnson' - Grand Fir
Abies nordmanniana - Caucasian Fir
Abies pardei - North African Fir
Abies procera - Noble Fir
Abies veitchii 'Pendula' - Weeping Veitch's Fir
Acer palmatum - Japanese Maple
Acer platanoides - Norway Maple
Acer rubrum - Red Maple
Acer saccharum - Sugar Maple
Acer saccharum columnare - Sugar Maple 'Newton Sentry'
Acer saccharum monumentale - Sugar Maple 'Temple's Upright'
Acoelorrhaphe wrightii -
Aesculus hippocastanum - Horse Chestnut
Arbutus menziesii - Madrone, madrona
Archontophoenix - Chieftain Date Palm
Areca catechu - Betel Palm
Areca triandra - Betel Tris Palm
Arenga pinnata - Sugar or Gomuti Palm
Asiminia triloba - Paw paw
Betula papyrifera - Paper Birch
Betula pendula - European White Birch
Brachea edulis - Guadaloupe Palm
Butia capitata 'Strictor' - Jelly Palm 'Strictor'
Butia eriospatha - Jelly Palm
Carpinus betulus - European hornbeam
Carpinus caroliniana - Hornbeam
Cedrus deodara - Deodar Cedar
Cedrus libani 'Aurea' - Cedar of Lebanon 'Aurea'
Celtis occidentalis - Common hackberry
Cephalotaxus fortunei - Chinese Plum Yew
Cocos nucifera - Coconut Palm
Corylus avellana - Crooked Hazelnut
Crataegus mollis - Red Haw
Crataegus x lavallei - Lavalle hawthorn
Cryptomeria japonica 'Elegans' - Japanese Cryptomeria
Cyrtostachys renda - Sealing Wax Palm, Lipstick Palm
Dictyosperma album - Princess Palm
Drymophloeus - Slender Palm
Elaeis oleifera - American Oil Palm
Eucalyptus collina - Silver- leaved Bloodwood
Eucalyptus fraxinoides - White Ash
Eucalyptus kombolgiensis - Scarp Gum
Eucalyptus obtusiflora - Dongara Mallee
Eucalyptus ornata - Silver Mallet
Eucalyptus paliformis - Wadbilliga Ash
Eucalyptus pyrocarpa - Large-fruited blackbutt
Eucalyptus sieberi - Silvertop Ash
Eucalyptus yilgarnensis - Yorrell
Eugeissona utilis - Borneo feather palm
Fagus grandifolia - American Beech
Ficus retusa - Fig Tree/Bonsai
Ginkgo biloba - Maidenhair Tree
Howea forsteriana - Forster Sentry Palm
Hyophorbe lagenicaulis - Bottle Palm
Idria columnaris - Boojum Tree
Jubaea chilensis - Coquito Palm, Chilean Vine Palm
Licuala paludosa -
Licuala rumphii -
Livistona chinensis - Chinese Fan Palm
Magnolia loebneri - Loebner Magnolia
Magnolia soulangeana - Saucer Magnolia
Malus pumila - Common Apple
Maytenus boaria - Mayten Tree
Metroxylon sagu - Sago Palm
Normanbya normanbyi - Queensland Black Palm
Nyssa sylvatica - Tupelo
Olea europea - Common Olive
Pachycormus discolor - Elephant Tree
Phoenix canariensis - Canary Island Date Palm
Phoenix sylvestris - India Date Palm
Picea abies 'Pendula' - Weeping Norway Spruce
Picea engelmannii 'Glauca' - Engelmann Spruce
Picea orientalis 'Skylands' - Oriental Spruce
Picea pungens - 'Oldenburg' - Colorado Spruce
Pinus ayacahuite - Ayacahuite Pine
Pinus cembra 'Compacta Glauca' - Swiss Stone Pine
Pinus densiflora 'Umbraculifera' - Japanese Red Pine
Pinus flexilis 'Vanderwolfs' - Limber Pine
Pinus mume - Apricot/Bonsai
Pinus muricata - Bishop Pine
Pinus nigra - Austrian Pine
Pinus parviflora - Japanese White Pine
Pinus peuce 'Aurea' - Macedonian Pine
Pinus pringlei - Mexican Pine
Pinus strobus - White Pine
Pinus sylvestris 'Fasttigiata' - Columnar Scotch Pine
Pinus wallichiana - Himalayan Pine
Platanus orientalis - Oriental Plantree
Populus alba 'Pyramidalis' - Bollean Poplar
Pinus nigra 'Geant de Suisse' - Austrian Pine
Podocarpus macrophyllus 'Maki' - Yew podocarpus
Podocarpus nagi - Nagi Podocarpus
Populus deltoides - Cottonwood
Populus nigra 'Italica' - Lombardy Poplar
Populus tremuloides - Quaking Aspen
Prunus americana - Wild Plum
Prunus cerasifera - Cherry Plum
Prunus serrulata - Oriental Cherry
Prunus virginiana - Chokecherry
Pseudophoenix sargentii - Buccaneer Palm
Pseudophoenix vinifera - Cherry Palm
Pseudotsuga menziesii 'Oudem.' - Douglas Fir
Pyrus communis - Common Pear
Quercus alba - White Oak
Quercus alba 'Fastigiata' - Cypress Oak
Quercus palustris - Pin Oak
Quercus rubra - Red Oak
Quercus velutina - Black Oak
Roystonea regia - Cuban Royal Palm
Sabal palmetto - Palmetto Palm
Salix babylonica - Babylon Weeping Willow
Sciadopitys verticillata - Umbrella Pine
Taxus baccata 'Erecta Aureovar.' - English Yew
Taxus baccata 'Melford' - English Yew
Tilia cordata - Littleleaf Linden
Tilia euchlora - Crimean Linden
Ulmus americana - American Elm
Washingtomia filifera - California Cotton Palm
Ziziphus jujuba - Chinese Jujube

[/quote]
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#22
Wow, thanks TARBICvS, this is very usefull if someone was to ask me to check a certain kind of tree. A lauda to you for the advancement of botany in re-creation of ancient arms!
The pollen data in the Netherlands and Germany as all in Latin. I did see some oaks missing, so these may not be known in the US, and is the horse chessnut the inedible one with the spikes on the husk being few, blunt and hard? The edible chessnut has a very hairy and prickly husk.
Salvete et Valete



Nil volentibus arduum





Robert P. Wimmers
www.erfgoedenzo.nl/Diensten/Creatie Big Grin
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#23
Robert the wild chesnut here in the US died out in the early part of the 20th century from a blight. However there are reports that its making a comeback in some areas. I wonder if the American species is similar to the European variety? If so I have some 100+ year old wood I could make sword parts from.
"...quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."


a.k.a. Paul M.
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#24
Hi Paul,

The wild one being the edible variety? The Romans are said to have imported the edible chestnuts Castanea sativa in these parts, it has been dated back as far as 200 BC, so there may be some Celtic influence in it's spread as well. There is an American variety, the Castanea dendata, like you stated, almost wiped out by the chestnut blight. Being of the same forest system, I would say they are closely related. In Roman era, the chestnut was cultivated in Greece (its Latin name harks back to the province they were cultivate in, Kastanéia in Pontus, the added sativa means "cultivated, useful and satisfying/filling"), the oldest known living trees found on the slopes of the Etna and dating back to Roman times (2000 to 4000 years old). The chestnut is related to the beech tree as well as the oak.

The walnut is also a very important tree to the Romans. They are native to the southern regions of Europe originating in Persia and introduced in Greece. From what I have gathered, the walnut was introduced to the America's by man. The tree is dedicated to Jupiter and called ‘jovis glans’ (nuts of Jupiter) and is of some religious value. There is a connection with Juno, and the leaves were used in wedding ceremonies.

From what I know of trees, the differences in species deal mainly with the habitus, meaning the form of the tree canopy and the shape of leaves and fruit. There may be some differences in bark, but this is not easy to spot (at least, not by me Big Grin ). The wood is often very similar in related species, so I would presume you could use the wood you have without any problems. The appearance is very, very similar.
Salvete et Valete



Nil volentibus arduum





Robert P. Wimmers
www.erfgoedenzo.nl/Diensten/Creatie Big Grin
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