3rd Century Tunic

[Caballo]

These frescos are from Brigetio, where Legio I Adiutrix formed the garrison in 1st and 2nd centuries AD. They are from a house destroyed by the end of the first third of the 3rd century AD- so close in time to Dura Europas, and have been interpreted as servants.
A number of thoughts:-
- The closeness in design to the Dura paintings of tunics (Dr James in his book pointed out the same issue as regards military kit) (I suspect we'd see very different dress today comparing Hungary and Syria!)
-The "arrow" design on the clavi and two rings on the sleeve, as found at Dura (see Roman Military Clothing 2, plate D)

If these are servants, then the interpretation of the sleeve rings as officers' designations may be wrong- and that they were simply the fashion at that period?

[Robert Vermaat]

Nice images Paul - thanks!

Of course the fashion in Syria and Hungary differes today - two totally different cultural zones, in contrast to Roman times. But compare Spanish and North America fashion (T-shirts and jean?) and they'll look as similar as Roman fashion did in Hungary and Syria back then.

Yes, I agree about the cuff stripes/rings. Although with the possibility that servants were dressed like their masters, I don't think that officer's tunics were distinguished by stripes/rings to signify their rank. Too many have at least two, while apparently persons of high rank do not show a far greater number. For instances have a look at thye famous 'Great Hunt' mosaic in the Piazza Armerina villa ([url:2zimnh0i]http://sights.seindal.dk/img/orig/5120.jpg[/url]), where the owner (I'll leave it to the imagination if he was a magnate or even an emperor) also has two sleeve rings, which are only marginally wider than the two of his servants/soldiers.

[Flavius Promotus]

If these are servants, then the interpretation of the sleeve rings as officers' designations may be wrong- and that they were simply the fashion at that period?

Interesting that a servant serving fried leek [?] eats the stuff himself. Identifiying him as a pregustator would certainly be only wild speculation.
BUT - the guy does not wear a cingulum militare and is therefore probably a civilian = the tunic he wears is not a symbol of military service, and certainly not a criterium for a specific rank.
IMHO "the fashion at that period" is a fitting quotation

It is far more likely that the military belt, and perhaps a sagum with brooch are - as is usually the case - signs of military service. So many gravestones from the 3rd century show soldiers proudly presenting the pendants of their cingula, but you don't see them pointing at the clavi of their tunics!
Here's one from Augsburg (from the RA imagebase):



http://www.le.ac.uk/archaeology/images/Terentiusptg.jpg

The Terentius fresco from Dura shows several soldiers with two purple stripes at their sleeves, and one of them is a tribune and the commander of the entire unit (COH XX Palmyrenorum) - if the sleeve clavi would have been an indicator of rank, we might expect him to have 3 or 4 stripes at his sleeves. [some of the tunics in this image may wear tunics without any sleeve clavi, but perhaps the colour somehow wore off, or the image resolution is too low]

However, the tribune wears a white sagum with a purple fringe, while the other soldiers wear light brown ones (with the exception of another person with a white sagum, but without a fringe).

Here's a sketch from Dr. James's homepage:
http://www.le.ac.uk/archaeology/stj/pai ... ldiers.jpg

So the sagum was almost certainly an indicator of rank, but I have severe doubts concerning the tunic.

[Flavius Promotus]

What I forgot to add...

Graham's Roman Military Clothing II shows the sketch of a tunic found at Dura-Europos, with purple sleeve clavi. We once tried to make a tunic according to the specifications of the original one. If this was a military tunic, then the soldier must have been a dwarf! It was more likely the tunic of a child or a iuuenus = fashion, no rank.

[John M McDermott]

I am continually struck by the graceful draping of tunics from Germany. My attempts to re-create this have resulted in mixed results. Linen works best, fine wool ok, and thick wool is hopeless. Also, the tunic dimensions discussed in Sumner's Roman Military Clothing I, just can't produce this effect. A narrower, sleeved tunic is necessary to reproduce this effect.

[Graham Sumner]

Hello John

I am continually struck by the graceful draping of tunics from Germany. My attempts to re-create this have resulted in mixed results. Linen works best, fine wool ok, and thick wool is hopeless. Also, the tunic dimensions discussed in Sumner's Roman Military Clothing I, just can't produce this effect. A narrower, sleeved tunic is necessary to reproduce this effect.

If you have been using the tunic dimensions from papyrus document BGU 1564 quoted in my book that might not be surprising. That document is from Egypt mid to late second century and probably describes a completely different style of tunic to those seen on some tombstones found in Germany dating to the first century AD. Nevertheless Jim Bowers has made some credible reconstructions. The materials might also play a part and I have yet to see modern wool tunics which look exactly like those found on ancient sites.

The bands on some later tunics possibly do relate to a system of awards or rank as attested by the SHA but as to what we can not say. It does appear that the fashion was also copied by civilians and we can also see bands on children's tunics which confuse things even more.

Florian, the Dura tunic is very small but it is interesting to note it is a very similar size to the Thorsberg tunic. That would have been clear in my second book but for some reason the drawing was reproduced showing only the arm of the tunic!

It is very difficult to recreate tunics etc... from original dimensions and then try to match them to modern people.

Graham.

[Flavius Promotus]

Florian, the Dura tunic is very small but it is interesting to note it is a very similar size to the Thorsberg tunic. That would have been clear in my second book but for some reason the drawing was reproduced showing only the arm of the tunic!

It is very difficult to recreate tunics etc... from original dimensions and then try to match them to modern people.

Graham,
I know what you mean - we once taylored a tunic with the dimensions of the Thorsberg tunic, and only the really slim members of our group had a chance to put it on
(it pinched under the armpits)
Interestingly, one of the guys who could put it on plays a 3rd century German anyway...

The wall painting from Brigetio has been published late in 2005 in ANTIKE WELT. If you want me to I could try to get the references.

[Graham Sumner]

Florian wrote:

The wall painting from Brigetio has been published late in 2005 in ANTIKE WELT. If you want me to I could try to get the references.

Certainly, Thanks. On the RAT imagebase there is also a tombstone from Regensburg. To me it looks like it has clavi. Is that correct or my wishful thinking?

Graham.

[John M McDermott]

Graham-

Could you be more specific about the "different tunic" worn in the 1st c. AD?

[Graham Sumner]

Hello John

Could you be more specific about the "different tunic" worn in the 1st c. AD?

I am assuming you are referring to the 'classic' draped tunic and cloak seen on many Rhineland tombstones. the sculptors of these tombstones have clearly gone to a lot of trouble to record the multiple folds on both tunics and cloaks. These clearly do not exist in later sculptures of Trajanic and Hadrianic soldiers for instance and are not always obvious on other tombstones from elsewhere in the empire, from earlier depictions of soldiers or indeed even some other contemporary soldiers in Germany as well.


Perhaps what is needed now are some experiments carried out with material, woven to the same specifications as those textiles found on first century sites.

Graham.

[John M McDermott]

Graham-

1. What would be the cut of these tunics?

2. What information can you provide about fabric specifications?

I have heard this before, that German weavers were particularly skilled.

[Graham Sumner]

Hello John

1. What would be the cut of these tunics?

2. What information can you provide about fabric specifications?

1. No idea, sorry, I wish I did. The only dimensions that I know off are those specified in the Antonine period Egyptian papyrus BGU1564. That is for the very large tunic, large even for a modern person. Logically it must have been altered and adapted in some way. The Nahal Hever type tunics seem to be an adequate size for an average sized modern male.

It is possible the Rhineland type tunics were worn in ways we do not yet understand. We are also assuming they were one piece. Perhaps the 'waistband' is concealing something else. I have an idea it is holding up a lower half worn over the upper tunic which is itself quite short. Or alternatively it is a longer tunic pulled up at the sides and then held in place by the waist band. I have asked Jim to try these ideas out but you are welcome to try too.

2. I can only point you in the direction of the current reports on textile finds in the Egyptian desert at the quarry forts and ports. These reports are filtering out at the moment. Sadly there is not a comparable amount of original textiles from Germany. There are nevertheless reports available on textile finds in Germany and Denmark. I too am tracking down as much as I can find. My interest was originally begun as an archaeological illustrator and I really only needed to know rough sizes and what fabrics were used but it seems more information is needed for re-enactors and this material evidence is just not easily available.

As for third century tunics there has been a vast improvement in the recreation of these even in the last year or so, as even a quick glance at Robert's site will show you. There are far more original complete specimens hiding away in reports, books and museums to base copies on but they are generally not classified as Roman but Coptic etc... However this is very misleading term as the same tunic designs and decorations were clearly found all over the empire.

The problem is deciding which might be military ones as civilians had very similar if not identical tunics with the usual clavi and orbiculi designs added as Florian has illustrated above. As a rule of thumb I personally would choose those tunic designs with very tight fitting sleeves and extremely close fitting wrists as this is a feature of nearly all the military tunics shown in wall paintings and mosaics. Perhaps this had a practical reason as a baggy tunic sleeve could get caught or snagged at an inopportune moment. (Florian has mentioned that the tunics in the scenes above are probably civilian because they are shown un-belted. I could also add that the wrists are not close fitting which is possibly another indicator they are not military tunics, even though they share similar designs to the Dura ones.)

There are some old fashioned, if you like, short sleeved tunics still depicted in Roman art and some of these also have the longer sleeved tunics worn underneath. You do not see the long sleeved tunics with baggy sleeves and wrists at all, which sadly seem to be so prevalent amongst re-enactors.

Graham.

[Flavius Promotus]

You do not see the long sleeved tunics with baggy sleeves and wrists at all, which sadly seem to be so prevalent amongst re-enactors.

Since I want to make myself a new tunic in the spring of 2007, I will try to take your advice seriously

The references for the AW-article have to wait for some time, as I'm off to Rome for a week - sorry.

[Graham Sumner]

No apology needed for going to Rome Florian, enjoy

Graham.