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Legio III Italica pars inferior, Castra Regina, 5th Century
#31
To further develop my 5th century impression, I downloaded the Bayerischen Staatsbibliothek' digizited "Notitia dignitatum" (ND) online at...

daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb00005863/images/index.html?seite=179&pdfseitex=

This is a mid-16th century copy of the late 4th to early 5th century "Notitia dignitatum omnium tam civilium quam militarium in partibus orientis".

I've posted several images from ND. Specifically, images of "Vallato", the last location for Legio III Italica pars inferior (listed as "superior" in ND), the closest Legio III Italica vexallation to the original Legio III Italica main base known as "Castra Regina" (now known as "Regensburg" in Bayern, Deutschland).

[Image: HistEUDEWallatoREwMilLeg3SupFortWallato05cE0650.JPG]

[Image: HistEUDEWallatoREwFort05cE0540px.JPG]

[Image: HistEUDEWallatoREwFort05cE0600.JPG]

And from Katherine Jenerette's University of South Carolina Late Antiquity presentation...

Unspecified ND version: http://www.jenerette.com/notitia/index.html

Legio III Italica ("Terciani") scutum: http://www.jenerette.com/notitia/content...large.html

[Image: HistREMilLeg3ItScut02-05c0478.JPG]
AMDG
Wm. / *r
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#32
Another very good "Castra Regina" history article; this is by Alexandra Südekum: http://archaeolet.de/?page_id=898

It's in German. Very good read overall.

The article mentions assumption that Castra Regina was turned over to Varisten foederati circa 410-420, when the last Legio III Italica unit there was moved to Manchingen bei Ingolstadt (Vallato?); then to the Thüringer in mid-5th century, and finally, to the Bajuwaren circa 530-534.

It has images linked to higher resolution images.
AMDG
Wm. / *r
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#33
The Legio III Italica ("Terciani") scutum pattern, from late 4th or early 5th century, is shown in Oxford Bodleian Library's 15th century copy of ""Notitia Dignitatum" at: http://bodley30.bodley.ox.ac.uk:8180/lun...Fwhat%2FMS

The Paris Bibliothèque Nationale de France's 15th century copy of ND is at: http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b60...661.langEN

The Wikimedia Commons image, based on the Oxford copy, is at: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:T...attern.svg

Let's compare them.

The Oxford image (1st attachment) has a wider gold band next to the black center; the outer band is red rather than gold, and it is about as broad as the black band next to it.

The Paris image (2nd attachment) shows green rather than black; the outer band is also red, but the green band next to it is thinner than the black band in the Oxford image.

The Wikimedia Commons image (3rd attachment), which according to the accompanying text and weblink, is apparently based on the Oxford image. However, there are some differences. If it is based on the Oxford image, then it needs to be modified.

Based on what I've seen from reenactment groups, it seems that the Oxford image is the preferred version.

Your thoughts on these matters?

P.S. The images here are presented in accordance with "Fair Use" provisions of copyright laws. These images are only for personal, education, or other non-commercial uses. If you want to use these images for other purposes, then go to the original websites, and contact the providers to make arrangements.


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Wm. Straw
"Vigilantivs"
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#34
The M2 is the version closest to the original carolingian manuscript ( compare Berger, Pamela C., The Insignia of the Notitia Dignitatum, A contribution to the study of late antique illustrated manuscripts. New York, Garland 1981.
and
Alexander, Jonathan J.G., The Illustrated Manuscripts of the Notitia dignitatum. In Goodburn, R. / Bartholomew, P., (Hgg.) Aspects of the Notitia Dignitatum (Paper presented to the conference in Oxford, December 13 to 15, 1974) (British Archaeological Reports - Suppl. ser. 15). Oxford 1976. 11-49. )

Berger, xviii:
Quote: Our analysis of the [different notitia dignitatum] documents reveals that a reliable record of the late antique objects, compositions, and spatial organization is accessible in this set of illustrations [gemeint ist M2], for M II is based on a tracing of the Spirensis [der Speyrer Codex], the lost Carolingian manuscript of the Notitia. This tracing is our most important link to the late antique version.

So far it is sensible to assume that the shields displayed in the ND for certain units have not much to do with the shields that were actually used by the troops. The rest is wishful thinking...

See for a detailed discussion:
C. Koepfer, Die Schildembleme der Notitia Dignitatum - Überlegungen zur Interpretation der Darstellung der Identität römischer Militäreinheiten in der Spätantike, in J. Blei et al., (Eds.), Heimat und Identität im Donauraum, Passau 2012.
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
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#35
Quote:So far it is sensible to assume that the shields displayed in the ND for certain units have not much to do with the shields that were actually used by the troops. The rest is wishful thinking...

As to the M2 version, I do agree that the link between the unit and the design is probably the most accurate (most groups today used the Bodleian version, which is sometimes different), but the colours are clrearly incorrect, with many pages being green or red. I would suggest to use the M2 version for the shield, and the Bodleian for the colours.

Of course we can never prove to a 100% certainty which unit used what shield designs. The Notitia Dignitatum, or at least the copies we know, are indeed not clear enough. Likewise, we don't know if such shield designs changed and if so, how often - new emperors could signal new shields for certain units.
On the other hand, Ammianus tells us that the Alamannni recognised certain units from their shield designs. Plus, there are a small number of designs that show up in contemporary art, which tells me that the designs now found in the copies of the ND are not a total fabrication that sprung from the mind of a Medieval copyist either! The accuracy of those copies remains a question, of course.
This discussion is even more difficule for the many groups doing the Principate era, who don't even have anything remotely comparable to the ND.

Does that mean that reenactment groups should discard the ND as a source? Of course not. No reenactment group would be able to paint any shield if they did. Just don't say that ýou have proof', but know the arguments and be able to recount them to the public, and you're doing it right.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#36
Here is a link to Florian Himmler’s (circa 2007) English translation of Legio III Italica’s history, from Emil Ritterling's 1924 German work “Legio”(In “Paulys Realencyclopädie der classischen Altertumswissenschaft” (RE), Band XII,1, Stuttgart 1924, Sp. 1211–1856):

http://www.legion-regensburg.de/legtert.pdf

I would like to write a condensed version of this Legio III Italica history in contemporary standard “American English”, mostly based on Florian’s translation. I will coordinate with other “Roman Army Talk” members to try to get & use a copy of Ritterling’s original work in electronic format.

(Of course, no translations are perfect. “Tradutori, traditori” or figuratively, “All Translators are Liars” (from a medieval Italian proverb?). However, we may have to rely on translators because we do not always have enough time to learn enough languages, historic contexts, authors’ private contexts, etc. Not even the authors’ best friends then could completely & accurately understand all the aspects, meanings, and nuances of all the words the authors wrote or spoke. Dr. Umberto Eco as written much about these principles & limitations in our communications & understandings. C'est la vie!!)

Google web searches over several hundred sites did not yield any links to websites with Ritterling’s 1924 “Legio” in German (image or text).

Florian H. last logged into RAT under his name in Oct 2010.

I will try to contact him through the Leg III Ital Anton group in Regensburg DE.

However, if you have an electronic copy of Ritterling’s “Legio” in German, or know someone who does, or know of a suitable website download link, please let me know so I can start work.

Thank you in advance for your help,
William R Straw
"Severinus of Noricum"
Western Roman Empire, Raetia, 5c AD
https://www.facebook.com/william.r.straw
http://www.linkedin.com/in/wmrstraw
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