Roman helmet with the mice on it

[Arthes]

So why when I do a search for ancient Roman mouse motifs, do I suddenly get a page about Alexander and the Elephant Medallions .. that man gets everywhere, even conquered my computer ........ :lol:
Elephants and mice - Aesop or was it Disney - Dumbo? ....... :roll:
regards
Arthes

[john m roberts]

The text says that the mouse-and-loaf motif has been found on Praetorian tombstones. does anyone know of any instances or available images? Maybe it's a reference to some forgotten anecdote from the organization's early days. Future archaeologists may woinder why so many English nobles had a garter, of all things, among their funeral achievements.

[Celer]

Salve,

If you think about it, bread was a vital political resource in ancient Rome due to the influence of the corn dole. Whoever was responsible for the supply and distribution of the corn dole would have had great power and influence. Were the Praetorians responsible for this? If so, it could be something they were proud about enough to put on a helmet.

Vale,

Celer.

[Praefectusclassis]

Interesting idea Julian. However, I'd say that you could turn it around as well: the corn dole was politically very important to the emperor and should therefore not be tied in with the Praefectus Praetorio, who had a lot of power contentrated in him to begin with.

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

does anybody knows the reason for this bread & mice on a helmet?

[Tarbicus]

Maybe it's a reference to some forgotten anecdote from the organization's early days.

Just an idea - Gathering intelligence?

[Peroni]

Just an idea - Gathering intelligence?

Maybe this is a way of showing/saying 'Frumentarii' or 'grain men' who were involved in intelligence?? :?

Founded by Hadrian I believe. The frumentarius was the collector of corn in a province, a position that brought the official into contact with enough locals and natives to acquire considerable intelligence about any given territory. Hadrian put them to use as his spies, and thus had a ready-made service and a large body to act as a courier system.

The frumentarii quickly earned the hatred of society. In the 3rd century, association with the heads of the service could produce severe repercussions. hock:

Makes you wonder why a man would be so proud to have their emblem on prominent display like on a helmet!

[Lepidina]

Isn't corn a new world food? Wasn't the dole wheat or some other grain?

[Peroni]

If you mean Maize(?) then yes it is.

an ear of corn back then would have been emmer or spelt wheat or barley

[Praefectusclassis]

I believe corn is one of those words where British and American English show that they're not the same. Gas is another example. American corn is like corn on the cob. Good, but indeed a new world thing. Brits think of grain.

[Lepidina]

Ah, two cultures separated by a common language.

[Gaius_Calvus]

Mice were chthonic, and were considered harbingers of imminent death in the Roman world.

So, having mice (as harbingers of imminent death) on a Soldier's helmet is certainly fitting.

Can't comment on the bread, though.

Vale

Calvus

[stevesarak]

I think it fairly obvious. It’s not a mouse, it’s a rat. He was the administrator of the first RAT forum. You know, sending wax tablets back and forth talking about ancient cultures and such, and the bread represents the medal he earned for excellent administration of it.

[JRSCline]

Perchance the wearer had a connection to the frumentarii... hock:

And may I say I don't relish being called a rat! :wink:

[Praefectusclassis]

See, I wondered if you were going to react to this thread Jen. :wink: