Heron of Alexandria

[Anonymous]

Do we still have Ingenious people like these anymore, these Men seem unreal. I guess with hard times, we needed hard people.

Don't we? I had the impression that a couple of nerdy computer geeks changed the world recently - or am I imagining this discussion? :lol:

[Endre Fodstad]

Don't we? I had the impression that a couple of nerdy computer geeks changed the world recently

Truly, hard men for hard times

[Goffredo]

A commonly held position:
"There was much working against inventors in the ancient world. First, abundant slave labor meant there was little incentive to create labor-saving devices. It was very different in the 18th century, when skilled labor was at a premium and capitalists were interested in anything that would speed up productivity and when there was a ready market for manufactured goods. Plus, the best minds were discouraged from working on such problems. Plato had laid down the law that a philosopher should never "manipulate matter." Only pure thought was worthy of a philosopher. Matter and its manipulation was the realm of mere workmen and a philosopher degraded himself by building things..."

Although true, I find this kind of superficial, of course in the good sense of the word. I always found it kind of obvious that if inventors are not respected they will get poor financing and will do little even if they have a clear idea and plan of what to do. I always found the more profound problem is to have a good idea and a plan, the REAL know-how and of course the talent to develop it.

I firmly believe that people with non-technical or non-scientific education profoundly underestimate the bias of looking back at what was and wasn't done in the past. I firmly believe the profound reasons for lack of inventions or of false starts in the past are REAL and not simply sociological/economical/what-ever. Inventiveness was not cherished, inventions were not done or pursued mainly because there was no REAL basis for them, beyond a "toyish" level.

A common metaphor (model) says science and technology has grown exponentially. I like the metaphor, but look closer at an exponential curve. Development is fast now because we are on the fast part of the curve. Most people always look at the right hand part of the curve. Now , instead, look at the left hand part. But if you are looking then I invite you to notice that there is first a very very VERY slow, PAINFULLY slow, rate of growth!

So don't see too much into sociological or economical explanations. Its great for parties and to sound cool. But Hero's (Heron's) steam engine is and was useless.

[Lepidina]

Inventiveness was not cherished, inventions were not done or pursued mainly because there was no REAL basis for them, beyond a "toyish" level.

I work for the Defense Acquisition University, a military corporate university and one of our main focuses is program management. A few years ago, the theme of our trade show booth was Leonardo Da Vinci and we made the point that if Leo had a good program manager, we would all be speaking Italian right. He had all the designs and plans for great inventions and weapons of war but no one to see those plans actually carried out.

The Romans, by contrast, were INCREDIBLE program managers. They could get anything done if they wanted to.

So I think another problem with inventors is that they aren't managers or even salespeople, because you have to "sell" your invention to get it produced unless you are independently wealthy. I know very few independantly wealthy inventors.

[Endre Fodstad]

I work for the Defense Acquisition University, a military corporate university and one of our main focuses is program management. A few years ago, the theme of our trade show booth was Leonardo Da Vinci and we made the point that if Leo had a good program manager, we would all be speaking Italian right. He had all the designs and plans for great inventions and weapons of war but no one to see those plans actually carried out.

Remember, though, that many of Leonardo's inventions would be difficult or impossible to construct with 16th century technology (especially metallurgy) and that a lot of others (such as the tank) were not his original ideas.