09-13-2010, 03:55 AM
Back to you-all, Benjamin, Ron, and Matthew
The stuff Benjamin has given us is enlightening!
Agreed, there were no longer fabricae. This seems to be a given. But the recent books of Dark, Snyder, et al, have stretched the Roman sphere in Britain to a later date, even though the Romans themselves were in the process of disintergration. Noted from above, Benjamin and Matthew have shown that craftsmen were still plying their trades, and among them were some talented blacksmiths. If we examine contemporaneous swords built in this period, we are looking at some of the finest examples of Migration Era weapons. The swords in Munich and the Bibliothique Nationale are exquisite examples. Any king worth his salt had one. It seems (as least my guess) that the gold-hilted sword of King Morgan was hardly different than King Childeric's. This weapon was used for pomp and show, passed from Morgan to his man (first knight?), then to the Church as a symbol of food-stipens, then back to Morgan again, all in great ceremony. It would be Snyder who placed this family (that of Saint Tewdrig) as the richest in Wales.
The Britons could not have fallen to dire straights until much later than we used to think. Ron mentioned them fielding a "home-grown" army against the Saxons in 466, and he wondered why? Simple, really. It goes back to the 410 letter from Honorius when they were told they were "on their own" when it came to defenses. The letter did not state they were no longer part of the Empire. This 466 army was probably a small one compared to 470. In that year, Emperor Anthemius appealed to the Britons for aid (which I believe enforces my argument that Britain was still within the Western Empire). A leader called "Riothamos" brought a force of 12,000 Britons from the Isle to Gaul as reinforments. If the Britons were so impoverished and lacking armor and weapons, how could they aid the Romans with such a massive field-army? And why would they aid Anthemius if they didn't still consider themselves Romans? :?
The shine of polished armor, the pomp of gold-hilted swords, and 12 legions-worth of soldiers, does not lend a picture of dire straights.
The stuff Benjamin has given us is enlightening!
Agreed, there were no longer fabricae. This seems to be a given. But the recent books of Dark, Snyder, et al, have stretched the Roman sphere in Britain to a later date, even though the Romans themselves were in the process of disintergration. Noted from above, Benjamin and Matthew have shown that craftsmen were still plying their trades, and among them were some talented blacksmiths. If we examine contemporaneous swords built in this period, we are looking at some of the finest examples of Migration Era weapons. The swords in Munich and the Bibliothique Nationale are exquisite examples. Any king worth his salt had one. It seems (as least my guess) that the gold-hilted sword of King Morgan was hardly different than King Childeric's. This weapon was used for pomp and show, passed from Morgan to his man (first knight?), then to the Church as a symbol of food-stipens, then back to Morgan again, all in great ceremony. It would be Snyder who placed this family (that of Saint Tewdrig) as the richest in Wales.
The Britons could not have fallen to dire straights until much later than we used to think. Ron mentioned them fielding a "home-grown" army against the Saxons in 466, and he wondered why? Simple, really. It goes back to the 410 letter from Honorius when they were told they were "on their own" when it came to defenses. The letter did not state they were no longer part of the Empire. This 466 army was probably a small one compared to 470. In that year, Emperor Anthemius appealed to the Britons for aid (which I believe enforces my argument that Britain was still within the Western Empire). A leader called "Riothamos" brought a force of 12,000 Britons from the Isle to Gaul as reinforments. If the Britons were so impoverished and lacking armor and weapons, how could they aid the Romans with such a massive field-army? And why would they aid Anthemius if they didn't still consider themselves Romans? :?
The shine of polished armor, the pomp of gold-hilted swords, and 12 legions-worth of soldiers, does not lend a picture of dire straights.
Alan J. Campbell
member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians
Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians
Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
