06-29-2010, 04:59 AM
John!
What a magnificent photo! Is that "something like" a Grozer bow I'm looking at?
Conal,
Here's an image of the Orlot Battle Placque, which shows many elements that entered the Roman cavalry and Britain. It's a piece of scrimshaw on elephant ivory, and it has been variously dated between 300 BC to AD 400. If we study all of the elements and put them into historical context, the scene can easily be dated to around the 1st century BC or slightly earlier.
The armor is similar to that of the Warring States period, only metal plates (and scales) instead of the Chinese leather-plating.
The leather helmets are similar to an Alanic one found in the Kuban, and the upper left one has scales applied.
The sword scabbards are straight with a flat-bottomed chape. They are attached to the belt by scabbard slides similar to those used with the late Roman spatha. The sword hilts are two-handed, and the blades are abbreviated in length and too wide for the scabbards... "artistic license." In comparison with the warrior bodies, these weapons are actually quite long.
The bows are asymetrical, and the gorytos has two tubular quivers which are typically Alanic. Several of these bows and an identical case have been found in the Takla Makan, below the Junggar Pendi.
The draco is early, without a dragon head yet an effective wind-sock and rallying point. The dragon was the offical symbol of the King of Qin (prounounced "Chin") who became the first emperor following the Warring States period. Dragons were auspicious and protective, not evil, mythically arising from lakes and rivers in the springtime to bring the rains. As "protectors," dragons were often painted on shields.
And the contus appears almost to full length, perhaps 12 feet or 4 metres.
The only weapon that didn't make it into the Roman cavalry is the "Scythian" battle-axe in the upper righthand corner. (Click on it for the Cinamascope Version. Sorry: still B & W.)
[attachment=0:23usevbs]<!-- ia0 Orlot Battle.jpg<!-- ia0 [/attachment:23usevbs]
I have two accurate reproduction Han Dynasty swords (from a museum piece owed by Emperor Wu-di, d. 59 AD), grips identical as pictured, one blade made from folded steel and the other sandwiched from iron outside with a steel center, but the scabbards are tapered toward the point. So what we are actually looking at here are late Warring States or early Han swords, or close copies made by steppe smiths. The grip checks shown are like the one found on the King of Yue's bronze sword, circa 200 BC. If anyone is familiar with pieces retrieved from the Saka kurgans in the Altai, the horses will look exactly like the one on the famous felt blanket picturing a warrior with a Mohawk haircut.
What we are viewing are the Saka-Massagetae, known to the Chinese as the "Wusun." They lived in what is now Xiniang Province plus westward to Sogdiana. The two handed swords are mentioned by Tacitus in a Roxolani vs Roman battle that occured on the lower Danube in the year 68 or 69. Perhaps there will always be those who will dismiss "outside" influences on cultures, such as the Britons, but it's hard to dismiss the number of "future Roman" cavalry elements pictured on this placque.
QUOTE of the DAY: "I don't think there can be any link between China and Britain at this time."
:lol: :lol:
What a magnificent photo! Is that "something like" a Grozer bow I'm looking at?
Quote:I can't google an image .... do you have one handy please?
Conal,
Here's an image of the Orlot Battle Placque, which shows many elements that entered the Roman cavalry and Britain. It's a piece of scrimshaw on elephant ivory, and it has been variously dated between 300 BC to AD 400. If we study all of the elements and put them into historical context, the scene can easily be dated to around the 1st century BC or slightly earlier.
The armor is similar to that of the Warring States period, only metal plates (and scales) instead of the Chinese leather-plating.
The leather helmets are similar to an Alanic one found in the Kuban, and the upper left one has scales applied.
The sword scabbards are straight with a flat-bottomed chape. They are attached to the belt by scabbard slides similar to those used with the late Roman spatha. The sword hilts are two-handed, and the blades are abbreviated in length and too wide for the scabbards... "artistic license." In comparison with the warrior bodies, these weapons are actually quite long.
The bows are asymetrical, and the gorytos has two tubular quivers which are typically Alanic. Several of these bows and an identical case have been found in the Takla Makan, below the Junggar Pendi.
The draco is early, without a dragon head yet an effective wind-sock and rallying point. The dragon was the offical symbol of the King of Qin (prounounced "Chin") who became the first emperor following the Warring States period. Dragons were auspicious and protective, not evil, mythically arising from lakes and rivers in the springtime to bring the rains. As "protectors," dragons were often painted on shields.
And the contus appears almost to full length, perhaps 12 feet or 4 metres.
The only weapon that didn't make it into the Roman cavalry is the "Scythian" battle-axe in the upper righthand corner. (Click on it for the Cinamascope Version. Sorry: still B & W.)
[attachment=0:23usevbs]<!-- ia0 Orlot Battle.jpg<!-- ia0 [/attachment:23usevbs]
I have two accurate reproduction Han Dynasty swords (from a museum piece owed by Emperor Wu-di, d. 59 AD), grips identical as pictured, one blade made from folded steel and the other sandwiched from iron outside with a steel center, but the scabbards are tapered toward the point. So what we are actually looking at here are late Warring States or early Han swords, or close copies made by steppe smiths. The grip checks shown are like the one found on the King of Yue's bronze sword, circa 200 BC. If anyone is familiar with pieces retrieved from the Saka kurgans in the Altai, the horses will look exactly like the one on the famous felt blanket picturing a warrior with a Mohawk haircut.
What we are viewing are the Saka-Massagetae, known to the Chinese as the "Wusun." They lived in what is now Xiniang Province plus westward to Sogdiana. The two handed swords are mentioned by Tacitus in a Roxolani vs Roman battle that occured on the lower Danube in the year 68 or 69. Perhaps there will always be those who will dismiss "outside" influences on cultures, such as the Britons, but it's hard to dismiss the number of "future Roman" cavalry elements pictured on this placque.
QUOTE of the DAY: "I don't think there can be any link between China and Britain at this time."
:lol: :lol:
Alan J. Campbell
member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians
Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians
Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
