China\'s Celtic Mummies

[Theodosius the Great]

Red haired mummies, men and women, are better preserved than any Egyptian's



-Theo

[Robert Vermaat]

In fact, he's every inch a Celt. Even his DNA says so.

Statements like this may look good in the paper, but they do not fill me with confidence about the scholarly quality of the rest of the article.

[Chariovalda]

The article is, indeed, crap, a fine example of selective quoting of Mair and Barber.
Better read "The Tarim Mummies" by Victor Mair and J.P. Mallory and Elizabeth Wayland Barber's "The Mummies of Urumchi".
Mallory's "In search of the Indo-Europeans" is still a classic as well, placing the Tocharians of the Tarim basin in a broader perspective.

The identification of the mummies as Celts is pure fantasy. It is true that scholars like Mair and Wayland Barber pointed to certain similarities, but they certainly never claimed, nor believe that the Tarim mummies are those of Celts. Rather, they consider these as partly deriving from a common Indo-European past and partly from cultural and commercial contacts with western Eurasia.

The genetic argument is particularly funny; I know samples were taken from several mummies and that the evidence pointed towards Europe, but that is not the same as finding evidence that genetically, Cherchen Man "was every inch an Celt" (given that we don't even know if there ever was, at some early point in the history of the Celtic-speaking peoples, something resembling a "Celtic genetic profile").

Anyway, the broader genetic picture of central Asia as it is emerging seems to point to three broad areas of origin / close genetic ties: Mongolia / Siberia (tentatively identified with the Turkic / Mongol peoples) , Eastern Europe (just as cautiously identified with early Indo-Europeans and early Indo-Iranians)and the Middle East (Neolithic / Bronze Age movements of farmers from Iran). Certainly not with Ireland :wink:

[Lothia]

The Tarim Mummies: Ancient China and the Mystery of the Earliest Peoples from the West by Mair and Mallory is a good read. If you are interested in the mummies found, they I recommend reading the book.

You (Chariovalda) are right about the article being misleading. I don't recall any reference to DNA testing.

But still, an interesting read. Especially if you are an author. You could spin some tales from what you find in the book.

Lothia.

[hoplite14gr]

I think we have discused thes efinds in the threads about the Tocharians before.

Kind regards

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

tarchan man: ie scythian.......... parts of them probably travelled up to china as nomadic tribe...

seen a very nice item on the DNA of some of them, they discovered a white(caucasian) red-haired blue eyed girl with a mongolian tribe, whose DNA later proved to be inherently Western........

M.VIB.M.

[varistus]

Perhaps they are remnants of the Romans who fought against Parthia and sold to china as slaves. I can imagine a huge price would be paif for sucha novelty and the Parthians were very adept at trade. Celtic features were probably common among Romans, after all northern Italy was celtic long before the Romans.

[MeinPanzer]

Perhaps they are remnants of the Romans who fought against Parthia and sold to china as slaves. I can imagine a huge price would be paif for sucha novelty and the Parthians were very adept at trade. Celtic features were probably common among Romans, after all northern Italy was celtic long before the Romans.

No, this is nothing spectacular of that sort. This is simply a media source getting a hold of information and running with it.

Central Asian peoples, like Scythians and their related kin who lived in the Altai mountains around the 5th C. BC could be fair-haired and light skinned, just like many northerly Iranian peoples and other Indo-European peoples. Many mummies have been found on the borders of Mongolia and near China that have red or blond hair and light skin.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

which is what i meant!

M.VIB.M.