09-07-2006, 08:15 PM
Oh, now that makes more sense. I didn't know you meant the Edict of Milan, Casmin. I'll have to adjust my answers to correspond.
So, you were saying that the Edict was the only measure Constantine took to unify the empire ? One major flaw I see in this theory is that Constantine wasn't sole emperor at the time. He just became sole Augustus of the West. To me, it seems unlikely (indeed, against his political interest) to try to unify the empire before unifying it under his sole rule. Putting the horse before the carriage, so to speak.
Pagans didn't approve of the Christians' religious exclusivity, but this didn't merit state-sponsored persecution in their eyes.
Furthermore, Christians as a group did not fight back against the state. They really did "turn the other cheek."
As I said earlier, you can make a far better case that Jewish citizens were a troublesome lot for both the state and regular citizens. Alexandria was notorious for its rioting between Greeks and Jews. And this often happened even in times of peace. Then there were the two Jewish revolts of the I and II centuries AD. For these reasons among others, the Christians sought to differentiate themselves from their Jewish brethren.
Back to unity : In your view, you see the Edict of Milan as the only measure taken by Constantine to achieve unity ? To me, the Edict seems like he was just laying the ground for it. [This is reminiscent of the illegal immigration issue taking place here in the US. The first step in dealling with it will probably be to legalize their status. Then there's a lengthy process to pursue that leads to full citizenship (i.e. naturalization) ]
I base my view in the context of the changing religious climate the Empire was experiencing for the prior century or so. A shift away from classical (i.e. Olympian) paganism toward more eastern monotheism. This shift was, no doubt, expedited by the forty years of political and military anarchy. I think Constantine tried to coalesce this general shift by ecouraging his subjects to convert to Chrisitianity. He probably saw Christianity as the most resilient and best organized monotheistic religion that could unify the Empire, in my view.
Theo
So, you were saying that the Edict was the only measure Constantine took to unify the empire ? One major flaw I see in this theory is that Constantine wasn't sole emperor at the time. He just became sole Augustus of the West. To me, it seems unlikely (indeed, against his political interest) to try to unify the empire before unifying it under his sole rule. Putting the horse before the carriage, so to speak.
Quote:They were a troublesome lot, often at odds with good Roman social behavior.The Christians were a troublesome lot only to the state authorities, but not always. When we see Emperors like Trajanus Decius, Valerian and Diocletian who demanded public sacrifices or just sought scapegoats for their failed leadership Christians became targets. But the common pagan thought the punishments inflicted on Christians were undeserved, as Tacitus recorded. Pagan sympathy for Christians continued in later times of persecution as well, in fact, some pagans went so far as to protect Christians from the authorities.
Quote:I think this is the way Constantine attempted to unite the Empire. On paper, the Christians were no longer the creepy people who conversed in hidden dark corners, fought "the man", or were pushed to martyrdom by going against the grain of Imperial policy. Uniting the Christians behind a common belief (ala Nicea) only sought to end the in-fighting with themselves so that they could be on an equal footing with their pagan counterparts.
Pagans didn't approve of the Christians' religious exclusivity, but this didn't merit state-sponsored persecution in their eyes.
Furthermore, Christians as a group did not fight back against the state. They really did "turn the other cheek."
As I said earlier, you can make a far better case that Jewish citizens were a troublesome lot for both the state and regular citizens. Alexandria was notorious for its rioting between Greeks and Jews. And this often happened even in times of peace. Then there were the two Jewish revolts of the I and II centuries AD. For these reasons among others, the Christians sought to differentiate themselves from their Jewish brethren.
Back to unity : In your view, you see the Edict of Milan as the only measure taken by Constantine to achieve unity ? To me, the Edict seems like he was just laying the ground for it. [This is reminiscent of the illegal immigration issue taking place here in the US. The first step in dealling with it will probably be to legalize their status. Then there's a lengthy process to pursue that leads to full citizenship (i.e. naturalization) ]
I base my view in the context of the changing religious climate the Empire was experiencing for the prior century or so. A shift away from classical (i.e. Olympian) paganism toward more eastern monotheism. This shift was, no doubt, expedited by the forty years of political and military anarchy. I think Constantine tried to coalesce this general shift by ecouraging his subjects to convert to Chrisitianity. He probably saw Christianity as the most resilient and best organized monotheistic religion that could unify the Empire, in my view.
Theo
Jaime
