promise to be oneof the last of these kind of posts-rome hbo

[Woadwarrior]

so something considered ''authentic;; to you guys is something that you have archeological evidence of?
this is not a good way to approach it
maybe those helmets are accurate, and you just dont know it

i hate when people say something is not authentic because of one tiny detail, absurd!

[Matt Lukes]

so something considered ''authentic;; to you guys is something that you have archeological evidence of?
this is not a good way to approach it
maybe those helmets are accurate, and you just dont know it

i hate when people say something is not authentic because of one tiny detail, absurd!

hock: Are you freaking kidding? OF COURSE there has to be evidence of something to consider it authentic! What's bad form is to guess about ANYTHING. And we're not talking about one tiny detail Francis- didn't I say ring on top, cheekguards and neckguard? Well then there's that raised band all the way around and the strange integral browguard- that's pretty much everything about it! If you want to say that maybe those helmets are correct and we've just never found an artifact to support it, you might as well say the Romans had laser weapons too and we just haven't found them yet!

Unbefreaking-lieveable...

And you didn't write back to me again, so forget my offer. I'm tired of this...

[Theodosius the Great]

so something considered ''authentic;; to you guys is something that you have archeological evidence of?

Not just that. Hollywood is prone to commit anachronisms. For example, those helmets from the TV series are shown on the column of Trajan which dates to the early 2nd century AD. But the series is supposed to take place at the latter end of the 1st century BC :roll:

Another anachronism : the city of Rome seen on the TV show isn't the same Rome of the Republic. What you see is Imperial Rome rather than the "city of brick" that Augustus described.

i hate when people say something is not authentic because of one tiny detail, absurd!

Some guys are petty and tend to focus on the flaws. I won't condemn a movie or series for costume inaccuracies but at the same time I choose not to follow in their aberrations with regards to my reenactment kit.


Theo

[Woadwarrior]

u should be tired of it

god you never were an archeologist, dont be so narrow minded, broaden it a bit.
You arent a roman, romans, are dead and then probabaly did some things, or wore some things, that wasnt recorded at all (and why would they be such trivial things). Do u understand.
Maybe a whole century of legionairres wore a helmet that NOBODY knows about, and theres no evidence of.
YET
what if some one finds such a helmet in the dirt?
huh?
if every single thing that happened in roman life and culture was recorded in some way, or has some kind of evidence of, how come HOW COME for example: there is no single trace of evidence to the location of alexander the greats tomb?



if I am goign to be kicked of of this site for asking a few questions which can easily be ignored, than this s the worst site, ever and doesnt allow people to just be free.
god im always on the edge

[Magnus]

so something considered ''authentic;; to you guys is something that you have archeological evidence of?
this is not a good way to approach it
maybe those helmets are accurate, and you just dont know it

i hate when people say something is not authentic because of one tiny detail, absurd!

Francis, perhaps you should start looking at some of the websites with actual historical or accurate reproductions on it, instead of criticising that which you know little about. And many here have posted links to such sites.

A good place to start is here:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/helmets.html

It's easy to read, has great examples of helmets and explains how they were built.

You're questions yet again are based entirely on a complete lack of knowledge. Because you ask, and ask and ask, you aren't doing any of the research on your own. Thus, you are retaining absolutely nothing. Even when we tell you something, it would appear that now you are disregarding it.

Instead of wasting our time and yours here on RAT when you have your precious minutes of internet time, perhaps you should make a list of the sites people have recommended you check out, and start going through them. After you've done that (It should take you a few months at your rate of internet availability), THEN come back here and ask us intelligent, well thought out questions.

This is just getting rediculous. To base an entire line of reasoning on a Hollywood production is folly. And that my friend, is what you are basing your perceptions of Rome on.

Would you watch a movie like Taladega Nights and think that is what real race car drivers are like? C'mon. Time to start taking responsibility for your learning practices.

[Magnus]

Francis, you're going to get turfed from this site faster than Caesar was assasinated because now your behavior is literaly getting psychotic. You're obsessive to the point where you are no longer listening to reason. You question the authorities on this site, when you've done no prior research of your own. Your questions are terribly put forward in all regards, and now a moderator has done his best to help you out, and you're throwing it in his face by acting like a spoiled child.

This is by far your last chance. Either smarten up, or you'll be getting some time in the corner all by yourself. We're not your parents, so don't make us discipline you because you're acting like an 8 year old throwing a tantrum.

[Magnus]

To answer your question (I'm not sure why i'm bothering)

"Maybe a whole century of legionairres wore a helmet that NOBODY knows about, and theres no evidence of.
YET
what if some one finds such a helmet in the dirt?
huh?
if every single thing that happened in roman life and culture was recorded in some way, or has some kind of evidence of, how come HOW COME for example: there is no single trace of evidence to the location of alexander the greats tomb? "

Francis, just because we haven't found the vast MAJORITY of archaeological finds, doesn't mean that gives ANYONE artistic license to start making crap up. And that's exactly what is done in Hollywood. What's unfortunate is that it's made such a huge impact on you, you can't see the trees for the forest.

I bet you can't tell me exactly what you were doing 2 years ago. Do you write everything down? Maybe you do, but have you ever written a note down and it got misplaced, or went through the wash, or got throw out by accident? Now, multiply all of the "what if's" by about 1,800 years of WAR, REBUILDING and other cultures, and maybe, just maybe you'll start to see why history gets lost through time.

But most importantly, why don't you read a book on Alexander's tomb. I'm sure the author has their own theories as to why the tomb isn't anywhere to be found.

:x

[Matt Lukes]

u should be tired of it

god you never were an archeologist, dont be so narrow minded, broaden it a bit.

hock: Forgive me- you obviously have a lot more experience than I

You arent a roman, romans, are dead and then probabaly did some things, or wore some things, that wasnt recorded at all (and why would they be such trivial things). Do u understand.

Haven't we been trying to tell YOU this for weeks now? :lol: Now you get it- sheesh. Of COURSE there are things we don't yet know, but the fact is that without evidence you cannot say something is accurate. When we have evidence that shows one thing and Hollywood goes and does its own thing it's absoutely correct to call it INACCURATE. DO YOU GET IT?

Maybe a whole century of legionairres wore a helmet that NOBODY knows about, and theres no evidence of.
YET
what if some one finds such a helmet in the dirt?
huh?

Then we adjust our idea of accuracy- obviously. Until then there's no evidence therfore it cannot be accepted as accurate.

if every single thing that happened in roman life and culture was recorded in some way, or has some kind of evidence of, how come HOW COME for example: there is no single trace of evidence to the location of alexander the greats tomb?

HUH?! What the hell are you talking about? No one said everything was recorded- why do you think we keep telling you WE JUST DON'T KNOW? The fact that there's no evidence of the location of Alexander's tomb is completely irrelevant to anything you're saying- in fact if someone were to recreate it we could not possibly call it accurate because there's just no evidence. It could be considered plausible if there's support for various things in other Macedonian Greek tombs, but nothing can be considered truly accurate UNTIL THERE IS PROOF. That's basic logic Francis.

if I am goign to be kicked of of this site for asking a few questions which can easily be ignored, than this s the worst site, ever and doesnt allow people to just be free.
god im always on the edge

That's because you don't listen want everything and right now, and refuse help when it's offered. I was pretty much the only person to defend you and suggest that you just needed guidance and what do you do when I try to help? You first ignore and then insult me. THAT'S why you're going to be asked to leave Francis. Because you just can't play nice and converse intelligently. You have a lot to learn...

[Woadwarrior]

haha
to me to my life you guys just typed a bunch of crap
you HAVE NO IDEA how much resaerch and books i have been reading so DONOT type things you have no idea that your even talking about

and for gods sakes, I am not basing my questions on Hollywod I just set an example

why didnt you tell me that you simply DONT KNOW, all I heard is this is right and that is wrong, and a very resonble reproduction of a roman helmet is in accurate pah!

and you know what by the way you talk matt, I think i do have more experience then you



and magnus
i dont appreciate your language that im making crap up, and that YOUR giving me my last chance, my god, and that I am an 8 year old
stop


if you kick me now goodybye
i did have some friends

[Matt Lukes]

haha
to me to my life you guys just typed a bunch of crap
you HAVE NO IDEA how much resaerch and books i have been reading so DONOT type things you have no idea that your even talking about

Um, didn't you say a while back that the reason you 'need' so many questions answered is that you have 1 hour of internet time every 48 hours, and that your town has no library and you yourself don't have a lot of books?

and for gods sakes, I am not basing my questions on Hollywod I just set an example

You sure mention it a lot and virtually all the questions I've read have referred directly to some production or other

why didnt you tell me that you simply DONT KNOW, all I heard is this is right and that is wrong, and a very resonble reproduction of a roman helmet is in accurate pah!

A very reasonable reproduction? Explain- justify this statement if you can. Just what's reasonable about it?

and you know what by the way you talk matt, I think i do have more experience then you

:lol: Oh boy...

[Woadwarrior]

well it is called saving pages.
there are many sites on ancient rome out there and I just simply save the pages, and read them later when i am offline. i buy book online, and dont have many but enough that I havent read them all yet. I am doing unbelievable research

they are a reasonable reproduction because simply they portray a roman helmet, and its true, you havent found something of the sort yet, but who knows? it might be lying somewhere, and also they could have made helmets like on the hbo series, but just have not survived the ages

am i making a totally stupid point?

[Caius Fabius]

Okay WoadWarrior, I just went and got this series on DVD. I watched the first show and took about 8 pages of legal pad notes, but I'll make them smaller and simpler here.

The helmets, shudder, the helmets. They are about 200 years too early, actually coming into the historical record about 200 years later than Julius Caesar's armies. The actual type of helmet would be mainly the various types of Montefortino Helmets, with possibly some early coolus types. For pictures of the real artifacts, try this.
[url:l5p8sebm]http://www.freewebtown.com/italica/italic_military/general_italic/armor/helmets/montefortino.html[/url]
and this
[url:l5p8sebm]http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEquipment-Helmet-montefortino.html[/url]
There are no cute little rings on top, and most hat a neck protector like the bill of a backwards baseball cap. You don't see this in the HBO helmets.

Whistles? Again, between the whistles and the wiggle worm changing of the ranks, obviously someone had a great imagination. The whistle can be traced back to the British Army, about 1800, but not the Roman army of 55BC. Has anyone ever seen one of these whistles in a museum? I admit, I haven't been to every museum in Europe. (Thanks Tarbicus, but was it used for military, boats, laborers, sports, or religious functions, will we ever know?)

Where are the pila? No Roman seemed to have, let alone carry or use pila.

Metal Transverse crest box, again on a helmet from the wrong period, no metal crest boxes have been found/published, so they as just a guess.

Wrong shields. The rectangular scutum comes almost 30-60 years later. The Oval shield is okay for a centurion, again maybe the grandson of the people being portrayed in the film.

Barbarians... I guess they are Gauls, with axes, and Marcomani helmets or ??? The Gauls had mail, helmets and shields, spears and swords, this seem to try and make them like generic barbarians... oh well

Why is someone holding his Gladius behind his shield in his left hand, (maybe so he could blow his 1800's British whistle).

about 4:50 on the first show a character says...
"...thieves will be strangles, deserters will be crucified". Nope, not in the Roman army, they would be stoned and beaten to death by their comrades from their own unit.

Vercingetorix "the King of all the Gauls" LOL (a war leader, not a king, and not of all the Gauls, no matter what Asterix comix the writer has in his collection. Why is he naked and wiping his nose on a Roman Eagle? He was the property of Julius Caesar, they would take his wealth, including personal jewelry and lock it away until his triumph, but keep Vercingetorix in the captivity fit for an honored opponent, until then. He and his best warriors were not stripped and his best warriors were not immediately sold off as slaves. Again, more atrocious helmets, leather armor, plastic armor, anachronistic Steve Reeves vambraces ...

Then they are selling the slaves from Alesia? The women and children were turned out of Alesia during the siege and starved to death outside the Gallic camp because Caesar would not allow them to be brought into the Roman camp. There were no nubile female slaves from Alesia to sell. By the way, Julius Caesar is bald or balding, by 52BC.

Alesia 52 BC, Julia wife of Pompeii died in 54BC, two years earlier, according to historians. Contrary to some rumors, I wasn't there.

More vambraces, what is with all the vambraces, did the costume people spend hours watching Steve Reeves movies or something?

Why, after the death of Julia do they not show Julius Caesar and Pompey wearing the beards of mourning?

Street scenes: why us a tree trunk for an anvil, the Romans had and used metal anvils. The streets are too clean, and have no stepping stones. There is too much facial hair for this period on the men, and the men have a lot of long hair, again, not in style during this period. A few barbarians, Jews, can have long hair, but citizens, freemen, and slaves wore their hair in a shorter cut, according to what we know. Rome would have been dirtier and more crowded, and the market would have been much bigger and much noisier, with many more animals.

Vambraces on ..Ave Steve Reeves, (again)

22 minutes, the Roman tents look good at night. The squad tents seem a bit tall, but we don't know for sure.
ACH! How the heck can these "blue Spaniards" (not going to go there) stab someone through their mail shirt with a thrust from a dagger. OK, it was plastic mail, not riveted iron?

More leather armor, where is the bronze breastplate? More Vambraces, ...
Gold Teeth, (yes the Greeks and Romans could do that) otherwise it seems like something out of a recent Johnny Depp film. Gold teeth....
maybe if you are a Egyptian Royal or Persian King, but Gold teeth (with roots we later find) in barbarian warriors?

Torture detachments in the armies of the mid-first century BC. hmmm, possible, but ......

I give up, several more pages, not worth typing, next show,

6 pages of notes

quote "I am going to ...... smoke all the smoke...." ?????????????

stabbing with a pugio into a neck it would be better to slash across, but you could do it like that, if you go to one side of the spine.

I did like the doctor, and the silver plate, made already to the size of the drill-bit, mentioned in some medical texts, very historical.

Why do they not cross the Rubicon on the bridge?It was a Roman Road with a sturdy bridge, an a bit harder to cross.

sigh... I am not going to go on and on about crappy armor, helmets, shields, lack of pila, .... blah, blah, blah. The streets in the suburbia are way too clean, the air is not smoky enough, the markets aren't selling anything and ....

Some of the textiles are really bad. The Roman Senators and Equestrians didn't have to wear coarse materials, they had spinners and weavers who could make really fine wool cloth.

4 more pages of notes..ahhh forget about it. I am sure that certain people will tell me I don't know anything about this anyway. LOL

.

[Tarbicus]

Whistles?....Has anyone ever seen one of these whistles in a museum? I admit, I haven't been to every museum in Europe.

cough cough

[Matt Lukes]

Sure they had whistles- how else did they officiate their Footballus games? Or maybe that should be Pesglobus games?

Actually they did carry pila- but they were very UGLY ones like those used in that GODAWFUL movie 'Druids' with Christopher Lambert.

I wondered about the flogging of Bullo- I had heard somewhere that the Romans considered it completely wrong to whip a Roman.

Also, it was my understanding that no one was ever nailed to a cross- they were just tied up there. The idea was for them to die slowly, but if you go and put large metal nails through wrists, etc., you're more likely to kill the crucifyee by hitting an artery or othewise sending them into shock.

And that lovely 'punch the chest raise the arm' Hollywood salute always makes me laugh...

[Matt Lukes]

One thing I really liked about the city was the color and the grafitti- something you never see in movies...