Goldish color helmets

[Woadwarrior]

i dont know exactly what material it is (maybe brass) but I have seen this shiny gold yellow colored metal helmets on the heads of some reenactors?

i thought it was that traditional silver one
i really dont like the way the yellow one looks
so was that yellow helmet actually used in history?
if so do u have any proof?

Pictures, and replies PLEASE

[Mithras]

T R O L L

I believe.

Woadwarrior is sincere, enthusiastic, curious and questioning. Iratus is just ... well we Brits have saying "taking the piss out of Woadwarrior".

Woadwarrior, the material is known as copper-alloy, meaning its either brass (copper and zinc) or bronze (copper and tin) or another metal made mainly from copper mixed with another material. They look great (I have a brass 3rd C helmet) but the legions preferred iron. Iron certainly is stronger, which, when it comes down to it, is most important.

[Woadwarrior]

so the primarily used iron
thank you very much for taking the time to reply
i agree about iratus

I have been trying to find, a pic, could you show me some photos of the exact helmey YOUR talking about so we dont get mixed up?
maybe yours?

[Vlad the Impala]

woadwarrior

have a look at the

helmet database

[url:8ndgfid2]http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/option,com_helmets/Itemid,96/[/url]

which is on this site

itll give you a good idea of the many types of helmet whcih have been found

[Robert Vermaat]

This is about re-enactors, I believe.

[Marcus Mummius]

A helmet made out of copper alloy has a big advantage over an iron one: it doesn't rust!

Silver helmets would not have been practical: silver is too soft to give adequate protection. Helmets were often silvered though, this way you can have a strong helmet but with a nice silvery look.

Vale,

[Caius Fabius]

Woad Warrior,
The Romans used both Iron and Bronze/Brass helmets. The MontiFortino and Coolus are usually if not always found in "gold colored' metal. When they are 2000 years old, they turn a dark brown in color. If I remember correctly you went to Italy this summer. I hope you saw a lot of helmets and artifacts in the museums you no doubt visited.
The point is, just because something is shown on the movie or TV screen doesn't make it correct. In fact, correctness is not as big a priority for a director as 'looking good' and 'saving money'. Most of the 'silver helmets' you see on the movies/Tv are made from plastic or aluminium. Proper Bronze helmets, such as worn by most of the soldiers at the time of Julius Caesar, would be made from bronze. They would look a lot like this:

[url:2ekeakl5]http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEquipment-Helmet-montefortino.html[/url]
and later
[url:2ekeakl5]http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEquipment-Helmet-hagenau.html#Hagenau[/url]

[Woadwarrior]

so a legion could have men wearing iron and the bronze alloy?
what would that bronze helmet look like brand new (reenactor pictures?)


and shields?
did every roman soldier have a RED shield???

[Matt Lukes]

It probably wouldn't have been mirror-polished if that's what you mean Francis- that's definitely inauthentic wink: I would actually expect the original helmets you see that are still very yellow (no green patina) would probably have looked much like that when reasonably new. Copper alloy can be quite shiny right after it's polished, but it takes on a dull look fairly quickly, so would looke dullish most of the time.

[Woadwarrior]

so in a typical roman legion they would have both? mixed together?
were thir more of the iron ones though?

[Matt Lukes]

Potentially, yes. I believe rather more iron helmets have been found than copper alloy ones (at least as far as I've seen), and given that iron is rather less likely to survive, that suggests the ratio of iron to copper alloy could have been even higher than it appears (much more iron). Of course we can't really discern anything from numbers of artifacts as it's not possible to present them as proper population representations.

[Martin Wallgren]

Yes they probally would!

[Matt Lukes]

and shields?
did every roman soldier have a RED shield???

No one knows just what shields really looked like- color or design. We've got evidence of each, but nothing for sure. There are constant discussions of what could have been, but it's unlikely we'll be able to say anything for sure without some remarkable discoveries of either literature or artifacts. The choice of red by most reenactors is one made because of lack of any substantial evidence one way or another.

[Woadwarrior]

Wow this si astounding
I have never knew this
this evidence i have never heard
iwill be doing research but I de like replies and details on this subject

so the red curved scutums, that most reenactors use might not exactly be the one that the real romans used?
wow
i cant believe it
on this subject i thought you were positive on
so nobodys sure
so when did the red scutum with the traditional emblem come from?
what evidence do you have?

[Matt Lukes]

so the red curved scutums, that most reenactors use might not exactly be the one that the real romans used?
wow
i cant believe it
on this subject i thought you were positive on

The red is definitely hypothetical- the Dura Europos scutum's base color is red, but then it's considerably later in date than that portrayed by most reenactors, its decoration is certainly not at all similar to that we consider likely standard for these periods, and it's not clearly a battle shield either. I read somewhere once that red was mainly a Hollywood choice and that its continued use is just because that's what people associated with Romans and therefore what was most easily identifable as such. To my knowledge there is no direct evidence of any color let alone red. Have a look at the thread on scutum emblems for more detailed information. The 'traditional' emblems, or rather elements that reenactors use are from tombstones, Trajan's Column and other sculptural depictions. There's no certainty really if these were Legio-specific, Cohors-specific or whatever so we again just go with the best information available and make choices as they seem appropriate when there's no clear proof one way or another.

so nobodys sure
so when did the red scutum with the traditional emblem come from?
what evidence do you have?

No Imperial-era scutum has ever been found (apart from some fragments that could have been from one), so there's no direct archaeological evidence for the painting on the front- thus we just don't know... something you've heard a lot, eh? :lol:

And just to be clear, the shape of the scuta we use is based on evidence- it is likely correct- it's just the colors and emblems that aren't 100% certain.